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Tyranid Special Rules

Dave

Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:19 pm

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I just re-read the spawning section, I think this would be a little more elegant than specifying a -d3 for the broken formations:

Spawning allows the Tyranid player to return Brood Creatures to play that have been killed, "gone to ground", or held off table before the start of the battle. During the End Phase before rallying, every Synapse Creature in an unbroken Brood Swarm automatically generates D3 "spawn points?. For this purpose up to three Tyranid Warriors in a Synapse Group count as a single Synapse Creature and a Dominatrix counts as two Synapse Creatures. In addition the following modifiers apply to the total "spawn points" generated for each Brood Swarm, whether it is broken or not:

-No enemy units within 30cm of any unit in the Brood Swarm +D3
-At least 1 Synapse Creature within 15cm of a Brood Nest +D3

----

So the modifiers would always apply, but only when a swarm is not broken will its synapse creatures contribute to the number of spawn points available to the swarm. I assume that if the swarm is broken, the synapse creatures are just trying to get all their ducks in a row. However, this does have the added effect of taking 2d3 away from nexus and the dom, thoughts?

Also, in T1.0 - Paragraph 3

the portion with the most Synapse Creatures cannot be removed.

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Markconz

Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:42 am

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(Dave @ Oct. 07 2007,14:19)

QUOTE

However, this does have the added effect of taking 2d3 away from nexus and the dom, thoughts?

I like the idea, but this differential effect with how nexus and dom are more affected troubles me a little... will think on it some more.

Have fixed up 1.0. Cheers.

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Dave

Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:04 am

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I was re-reading these over again in preparation for the game(s) with DS I have this weekend. I found some additional things I wanted to address, and a typo.

First, in Chroma's PDF all references to Brood Swarms have been replaced by Synapse Swarms. I don't care either way, I just wanted to note it. Renaming them to Synapse Swarms does make sense, as they swarm does belong to the Synapse Group and not the Brood Group. On the other hand, between Synapse Creature, Synapse Group, Synapse Swarm and synapse range, that's a lot of "synapse".

OK, onto my comments:

Tyranid Swarms:

Paragrpah 2 - last sentence
there's a typo "Grounds" should be "Groups"

Paragraph 3 - last sentence
Brood Swarms that lose their Synapse Creatures before they have taken an action for the turn still get to take an action, their Brood Creatures are only removed if they are out of synapse range in the End Phase.

I reworded this a little bit, not a huge deal but Synapse/Brood Swarms take actions, not Brood Creatures.

Paragraph 4 - 3rd sentence
If any Brood Creatures are within synapse range of two or more Synapse Groups then the Brood Creatures may be joined to either or their Brood Swarms as decided by the Tyranid player.

Another reword and another not a huge deal. I just made it flow like the sentence before it.

Spawning:

Last Paragraph

delete "and remove all blastmarkers".

I know we talked about this, so I just wanted to note it on this thread. I will be using this edit in my games this weekend.

Objectives:

Should we delete the last sentence?

Also units that removed Instinctive status during the end phase may not control or contest objectives.

Nothing has an Instictive status anymore in this rules variant. How does controlling/contesting work normally with broken units that just rallied before the end of the game? I think it should be the same with the 'nids as it is with them. Restricting Synapse and Ind. units to controlling/contesting objectives is enough I think.

Tiebreaker - rename to Tiebreak (as that's what its called in the rulebook)

This section always sat funny with me. The "or reduced below half strength" part confused me and I thought it was too much a break from the norm to use the values listed.

-Synapse Groups are worth double their points value.
-Independent Swarms are worth their normal point value.
-Brood Creature units are worth half their point value, rounded down.

To that end, I'd like to hear what people think about what follows. This is based on the language from the rulebook.

The Tyranid army does not use formation size to determine the number of victory points the opponent receives in the event of a tiebreak. Instead, use the victory point values listed below.

An opponent scores a number of victory points equal to twice the full points value of any Synapse Groups completely destroyed; plus the full points value of any Synapse Groups reduced to below half strength, or any Independent Swarm completely destroyed; plus half of the full points value of any Independent Swarm reduced to below half strength, or any Common or Uncommon Brood Groups completely destroyed.

However, I always found the rulebook's language difficult to parse. It's relatively easy to grasp how it works once you know how it works, but the first time I read that I was like "huh?" So, here's a summary chart that I think could be substituted or added after:

Destroyed Below Half Strength
Synapse Groups 2x 1x
Independent Swarms 1x .5x
Common Brood Groups .5x -
Uncommon Brood Groups .5x -

That's it, thoughts?

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Markconz

Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:20 am

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(Dave @ Dec. 11 2007,02:04)

QUOTE

Objectives:

Should we delete the last sentence?

Also units that removed Instinctive status during the end phase may not control or contest objectives.

Nothing has an Instictive status anymore in this rules variant. How does controlling/contesting work normally with broken units that just rallied before the end of the game? I think it should be the same with the 'nids as it is with them. Restricting Synapse and Ind. units to controlling/contesting objectives is enough I think.

Maybe something like "units that rallied during the end phase may not control or contest objectives."

Tiebreaker - rename to Tiebreak (as that's what its called in the rulebook)

This section always sat funny with me. The "or reduced below half strength" part confused me and I thought it was too much a break from the norm to use the values listed.

-Synapse Groups are worth double their points value.
-Independent Swarms are worth their normal point value.
-Brood Creature units are worth half their point value, rounded down.

To that end, I'd like to hear what people think about what follows. This is based on the language from the rulebook.

The Tyranid army does not use formation size to determine the number of victory points the opponent receives in the event of a tiebreak. Instead, use the victory point values listed below.

An opponent scores a number of victory points equal to twice the full points value of any Synapse Groups completely destroyed; plus the full points value of any Synapse Groups reduced to below half strength, or any Independent Swarm completely destroyed; plus half of the full points value of any Independent Swarm reduced to below half strength, or any Common or Uncommon Brood Groups completely destroyed.

However, I always found the rulebook's language difficult to parse. It's relatively easy to grasp how it works once you know how it works, but the first time I read that I was like "huh?" So, here's a summary chart that I think could be substituted or added after:

Destroyed Below Half Strength
Synapse Groups 2x 1x
Independent Swarms 1x .5x
Common Brood Groups .5x -
Uncommon Brood Groups .5x -

That's it, thoughts?

Personally I've found working out tiebreaks with tyranids is probably over complicated. A more elegant system would be nice, but that table may help for now I think.

And cheers for the rest of the comments too.

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Dave

Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:04 pm

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(Markconz @ Dec. 10 2007,22:20)

QUOTE

Maybe something like "units that rallied during the end phase may not control or contest objectives."

Found it, from 6.1.4:

Units from broken formations or from formations that have rallied that end phase can not capture or contest objectives.

So by that I'd say it's extraneous.

(Markconz @ Dec. 10 2007,22:20)

QUOTE

Personally I've found working out tiebreaks with tyranids is probably over complicated. A more elegant system would be nice, but that table may help for now I think.

What do you find complicated as opposed to how VP are normally worked out? Looking at it again I think it might be worthwhile to have a note in there that says you only count those groups destroyed/

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Markconz

Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:50 am

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Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
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(Dave @ Dec. 11 2007,14:04)

QUOTE

(Markconz @ Dec. 10 2007,22:20)

QUOTE

Maybe something like "units that rallied during the end phase may not control or contest objectives."

Found it, from 6.1.4:

Units from broken formations or from formations that have rallied that end phase can not capture or contest objectives.

So by that I'd say it's extraneous.

Ah right.

(Markconz @ Dec. 10 2007,22:20)

QUOTE

Personally I've found working out tiebreaks with tyranids is probably over complicated. A more elegant system would be nice, but that table may help for now I think.

What do you find complicated as opposed to how VP are normally worked out? Looking at it again I think it might be worthwhile to have a note in there that says you only count those groups destroyed/

Just the amount of separate calculation required, ie there will be many brood groups compared to numbers of most armies formations, and then you have to double/halve points of many of those on top of that.

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Dave

Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:24 am

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This follows from Rahan's comments and question:

http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin....y235487

As I tried to figure out where the confusion was I thought that perhaps the spawn, rally, reorg flow in the end phase could be made a little clearer. To that end, what are peoples thoughts on this:

Remove the following from the spawning section (as it really doesn't have much to do with spawning other than coming after it)

After Spawning has been completed any broken Tyranid formations rally automatically and remove all blastmarkers.

And change the End Phase section under Tyranid Swarms to this:

During the End Phase, all Tyranid Swarms automatically rally. After rallying, Brood Swarms may be reorganized. First, any Brood Creatures out of synapse range (15cm) "go to ground". Second, any Brood Creatures within synapse range of one Synapse Group become part of its Brood Swarm. If any Brood Creatures are within synapse range of two or more Synapse Groups then the Brood Creatures may be joined to any one of the Synapse Groups as decided by the Tyranid player. It is recommended that the units that are in doubt be turned to face the Brood Swarm to which they belong to avoid confusion later.

Sneaking a reference to Brood Swarm spawning in there might not be a bad idea, but I couldn't figure out how todo that without being too wordy.

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Markconz

Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:53 am

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Hmm, considering your comments and Rahan's at the moment (cheers Rahan!). I've made a pdf to make things easier to playtest (I've got a game tomorrow), and was about to post it, but will give it some more thought.

Part of the problem is Chroma wants to remove terms like 'Go to ground' as unnecessary, so trying to work that into it.

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Chroma

Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:04 am

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(Markconz @ Dec. 29 2007,02:53)

QUOTE

Part of the problem is Chroma wants to remove terms like 'Go to ground' as unnecessary, so trying to work that into it.

Just say "removed from play", as it's already, essentially, defined and doesn't create a new term.

And "Brood Swarms" should be called "Synapse Swarms", if at all possible.

"Brood Swarms" will be something different in alt-lists.

Thanks for the efforts, gentlemen!

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Markconz

Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:15 am

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Righto, also did I hear you right that you want 4+RA for Carnis (isn't that making them too much like Malifactors? What about 5+RA?). Also Invulnerable save for bio-titans?

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Dave

Post subject: Tyranid Special Rules

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:27 am

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(Markconz @ Dec. 28 2007,21:53)

QUOTE

Part of the problem is Chroma wants to remove terms like 'Go to ground' as unnecessary, so trying to work that into it.

I know Hena has mentioned that he would like that term removed as well.

Does that mean we have consensus on a Tyranid issue? Call Time Magazine!

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