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[BatRep] (3K) Nids 8.4M vs Eldar 1.8ish
Soren
 Post subject: [BatRep] (3K) Nids 8.4M vs Eldar 1.8ish
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:53 pm 
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totally agree

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Markconz
 Post subject: [BatRep] (3K) Nids 8.4M vs Eldar 1.8ish
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:10 am 
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(Chroma @ Nov. 25 2007,13:41)
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Thanks for the report Markconz!  

Would it be possible to get more detail on what you spawn back in a game, just to get a feel of what is returning?


(BlackLegion @ Nov. 25 2007,14:36)
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I suggest Invulnerable Save for Bio-Titans again :)

Well, my variant has that...  :D

Will remember for next time on the spawning.  I did pretty well this game on spawning, but then he did kill everything BUT the things that could spawn...

Agreed that the inv save for the bio-titans is probably a good idea.

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zap123
 Post subject: [BatRep] (3K) Nids 8.4M vs Eldar 1.8ish
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:30 am 
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(Chroma @ Nov. 25 2007,20:52)
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(Soren @ Nov. 25 2007,20:49)
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realistic

I think "realistic" is far too strong a word to use when discussing the 40k universe... let alone Tyranids. ?:)

We should probably use "appropriate", "playable", or "plausible".

Maybe "balanced".  :)

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Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] (3K) Nids 8.4M vs Eldar 1.8ish
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:33 am 
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(zap123 @ Nov. 26 2007,00:30)
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(Chroma @ Nov. 25 2007,20:52)
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(Soren @ Nov. 25 2007,20:49)
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realistic

I think "realistic" is far too strong a word to use when discussing the 40k universe... let alone Tyranids. ?:)

We should probably use "appropriate", "playable", or "plausible".

Maybe "balanced". ?:)

Actually, I believe "balanced" is external to what we're talking about... a rule can be "balanced", but not "plausable" or "appropriate"...  

E.g., "Let's just use the normal Blast markers and breaking rules for Tyranids"... you could certainly balance that, but many wouldn't find that "appropriate"...

"Balanced" is our over-arcing goal in development.

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Dave
 Post subject: [BatRep] (3K) Nids 8.4M vs Eldar 1.8ish
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:58 pm 
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(Soren @ Nov. 25 2007,15:49)
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realistic would be no BM at all. Tyranids are completely fearless, more than any other organism in the 40k universe (maybe Chaos-spawns are in the same category)

I don't think it would. They aren't completely fearless, if they were everything would have that special ability.

They are driven and controlled by a hive mind which considers them little more than bullets. However, this control is by no means absolute, if it was then we would have the instinctive rules in the first place. The hive mind's control over the lesser creatures is focused through the synapse creatures. BMs are meant to represent the disruption of the control over the lesser creatures, not their fear. To quote from the rulebook:

Blast markers represent a whole range of personal disasters occurring to the units in a formation: things being damaged, squads being scattered, breaking or fleeing, and so on. They are a vital part of Epic so don't overlook their importance.


We've chosen to represent this hive control by giving the Tyranids an edge over other armies when it comes to BMs. In the Markconz genus BMs don't cause suppression or count in an assault. That makes sense because the hive mind's control over the lesser creatures allows them to ignore the "squads being scattered, breaking or fleeing" effects of BMs.

However, the lesser creatures are still animals and every animal has survival instinct. When creatures around them start dieing the lesser creatures are going to start to resist the hive mind. This, added to the chaos of battle and the hive mind attempting to give orders this way and that is going to cause a disruption of the hive mind's control at points.  That's why we still need BMs.  Don't get caught up with BMs represent fear, that's only one of the things they represent.

Markconz, I would be all for removing "and remove all Blast markers" from the last paragraph of spawning. Especially if disposable ga(u)nts are kept. I think auto-rallying AND removing all the BMs is too much of a jump from the norm.

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Markconz
 Post subject: [BatRep] (3K) Nids 8.4M vs Eldar 1.8ish
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:06 am 
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(Dave @ Nov. 27 2007,13:58)
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Markconz, I would be all for removing "and remove all Blast markers" from the last paragraph of spawning. Especially if disposable ga(u)nts are kept. I think auto-rallying AND removing all the BMs is too much of a jump from the norm.

Yes I agree, seeing that jump each time pretty much convinced me after that last game. I'll give the change a go next game I think. For ease of use,  I might try and throw together an army list document based on the handbook format and post that.

And agreed with you on the BM issue, it's not just scared it's disruption. Also in 40k, many nids can actually break and run away, so they certainly are not 'fearless' in any case.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] (3K) Nids 8.4M vs Eldar 1.8ish
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:21 am 
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(Markconz @ Nov. 27 2007,23:06)
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Yes I agree, seeing that jump each time pretty much convinced me after that last game.

I'd recommend bringing things like this up in the "Markconz Variant" thread above so that people are more likely to notice and discuss it.

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Markconz
 Post subject: [BatRep] (3K) Nids 8.4M vs Eldar 1.8ish
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:53 am 
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Yeah good point.

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