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Carnifexes
Keep them as they are. 50%  50%  [ 9 ]
Give them 4+ Reinforced Armour. 28%  28%  [ 5 ]
Give them Thick Rear Armour. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Give them 4+ Reinforced Armour & Thick Rear Armour. 17%  17%  [ 3 ]
Something else. 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 18

Carnifexes
BlackLegion
 Post subject: Carnifexes
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:43 pm 
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Yes it would. But it wouldn't be more complicated than the Holofield of the Eldar titans (3+ Holofield save instead of armour save and then 5+ reroll because of RA):D

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Chroma
 Post subject: Carnifexes
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:56 pm 
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(BlackLegion @ Nov. 11 2007,17:43)
QUOTE
Yes it would. But it wouldn't be more complicated than the Holofield of the Eldar titans (3+ Holofield save instead of armour save and then 5+ reroll because of RA):D

As nice as it would be for fine-tuning, we'll not be doing "variable" armour saves in this list... unless it was added as a change to the Core Rules... which I don't think is happening.

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Kagetora
 Post subject: Carnifexes
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:38 am 
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Well, you could just give them an Invulnerable Save.  So you'd get a 6+ after you failed your 3+, or against a MW (or a TK) hit.  Its not terribly useful (I can count the number of 6+ saves Ive made in 3 games on one hand and have fingers left over), but its something.

What would make them far more useful, IMO, and would go a long ways towards me not caring about their 3+ save would be to give them back their Venom Cannons/Bio-Plasma vomiting.  At least then they might have something to do.   :laugh:

Plus it fits perfectly with the 40k version.  1 set of Scything Talons (MW attack in CC), 1 Venom Cannon/Bio-Plasma attack (30cm AP5+/AT6+).  Exactly like the Hive Tyrant, only the Tyrant is a bit tougher (RA) and has Synapse.

Because it sure would be nifty to take more than one shot with a Swarm.   ???  :D

But, barring that, I voted for 4+RA.  They need SOMETHING against MW hits.  Otherwise they don't do their jobs very well.
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Kagetora
 Post subject: Carnifexes
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:28 am 
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(Hena @ Nov. 12 2007,06:17)
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Carnifex has Invulnerable Save. Hive Tyrant should have 3+ and Invulnerable too.

My 8.4 file says "Walker, Fearless, Brood (3)"

Nothing about an Inv. Save for Carnifex.

And why must the Hive Tyrant be nerfed out of usefulness completely?

With nothing but a 3+ save, and only 1 per Swarm, there's no way in hell I'd simple throw away points by fielding Tyrants.  You'd have to own so many Canifex and Slugs to guard the poor cad from every angle it simply wouldn't be worth it.  Hell, a 4+ RA is a 25% failure rate to begin with, then poof.  No more Swarm unless you manage to run over to them before the end of the turn with some other Synapse.

Sorry, but thats just goofy.  Even with 6 Carnis and 3 Haruspex in the Swarm, there's still usually only 2-3 of them to go through from any given angle before you get to the Tyrant.

But, I still think there should be a Synapse Group with 2 Tyrants.  Hell, I can have 5 points of Spawning with the Tyrant/2 Warrior formation, AND I get a price break on it.  I can hardly see an argument against allowing 2 Tyrants in a Formation for a total of 6 Spawn points.  At least then it doesn't just vanish when the opponent gets in a lucky shot (or I fail a Dangerous Terrain test with 2 1's, as I did on Friday).

If I could put TWO Tyrants back into a Swarm, again, ala a 40k Tyranid army, I'd be much more inclined to allow them to revert to a 3+ save.  Say, 2 Tyrants for 200 or 225 points.  But without that, uh-uh.  No way.  I'll never supprt dropping that lone Tyrant's save to a 3+.  Or, if it goes there, I simply won't use them.  What a waste.
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Markconz
 Post subject: Carnifexes
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:47 am 
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(Kagetora @ Nov. 12 2007,07:28)
QUOTE
With nothing but a 3+ save, and only 1 per Swarm, there's no way in hell I'd simple throw away points by fielding Tyrants.  You'd have to own so many Canifex and Slugs to guard the poor cad from every angle it simply wouldn't be worth it.  Hell, a 4+ RA is a 25% failure rate to begin with, then poof.

Lol, yep those were my thoughts on the matter...  :D

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Carnifexes
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:48 am 
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If people are wondering as to the various armour chances
2+ = AT83.3%
4+/RA = AT75% / MW50%
3+/Inv= AT72.2% / MW16.7% / TK16.7%
3+ = AT66.7%
4+/Inv= AT58.3% / MW16.7% / TK16.7%
5+/RA/Inv= AT55.6% / MW33.3% / TK16.7%
5+/RA = AT55.6% / MW33.3%

You can also throw Thick Rear Armour into the mix.

Though I am now wondering how lance, MW and Invulnerable save work together!

The point on Tyrants seems sound.

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: Carnifexes
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:04 am 
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From my games with the list in its previous incarnation, I would go with not changing it at all. Keep them as they are.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Carnifexes
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:23 pm 
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It seems daft to me that one macro hit will kill a carnifex automatically. A reinforced save or an invulnerable save is a necessity.

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