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[Experimental] Independent Burrowing Trygons
Chroma
 Post subject: [Experimental] Independent Burrowing Trygons
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:19 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Feb. 27 2007,14:16)
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It's been a while since I looked at them, but the Tunneling rules in the Collectors' Models section of the rulebook might be a good place to start for burrowing rules.

*LAUGH*

I don't think I've ever even read that page.  Looks interesting!

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Cobalt
 Post subject: [Experimental] Independent Burrowing Trygons
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:15 am 
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I agree that using the existing burrowing rule is actually the best option! We should have thought of it earlier...Thanks Nealhunt!

Here comes the rule:
Burrowing units and the units they transport are deployed off table , just like spaceships.
Note down the coordinates where you want the burrowers to emerge, just like it is done for planetfall.
Note down the turn in which they appear.
If the burrower appear in your half of the table, they can enter game on the second turn or later.
If they appear on the enemy's half, they cannot enter till the thir turn.
Deploy burrowers at the beginning of the turn in which they appear. The units they transport can be activated in the same turn.

So make it independent burrower, and let him carry warriors, raveners and gaunts!




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [Experimental] Independent Burrowing Trygons
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:21 am 
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(Chroma @ Feb. 27 2007,00:31)
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(Evil and Chaos @ Feb. 27 2007,00:26)
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The Scythed Hierodule first appeared on Hamman's world.

That *a* Hierodule... not Hierodules...

And we're also allowed one "Homer"...  :D

(Hope people get the reference... *laugh*)

It was many, many Hierodules IIRC, though I don't have my IA books with me. Check the fluff on the Barbed Hierodule, unless my memory fails me it mentions the long range slaughter of many Scythed Hierodules in the latter stages of the fall of Hamman's world.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [Experimental] Independent Burrowing Trygons
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:28 am 
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(Cobalt @ Feb. 28 2007,06:15)
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I agree that using the existing burrowing rule is actually the best option! We should have thought of it earlier...Thanks Nealhunt!

.......

So make it independent burrower, and let him carry warriors, raveners and gaunts!

I agree, this rule is the best suited.

The only contravention of the background here is allowing Warriors to come through the tunnel as well as Gaunts... but from a mechanics-perspective I can understand why it's nessesary (The Swarm that follows the Trygon needs a Synapse group).

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Experimental] Independent Burrowing Trygons
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:58 pm 
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(Hena @ Feb. 28 2007,11:16)
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I rather wouldn't open that can of worms again. Since I agree that there should be no other way (than vituperator) for getting tyranid swarms over (or under) the guns of enemy.

Yeah, I we're definitely not "going there" with Tyranid transports and "burrowing".

I don't use them this way, but I'd still like to see some testing of the Independent "Burrowing" Trygon using either planetfall or burrowing.

Game on!

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Soren
 Post subject: [Experimental] Independent Burrowing Trygons
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:49 pm 
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Burrowing simply sounds like Teleport to me......

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Experimental] Independent Burrowing Trygons
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:52 pm 
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(Soren @ Feb. 28 2007,14:49)
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Burrowing simply sounds like Teleport to me......

Well, you have to pre-plot it and, depending where you've set it up, you don't get it until Turn 2 or Turn 3, so there are differences.  

Teleport gives you complete, unlimited choice on when and where to appear.

Teleporting, fearless, Unstoppable war engines is a bad idea...

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Soren
 Post subject: [Experimental] Independent Burrowing Trygons
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:00 pm 
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To be honest the burrowing thing sounds bad to me in general, but I will give it a try  ???

I don?t think this is needed...but if majority asks for it.....




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nealhunt
 Post subject: [Experimental] Independent Burrowing Trygons
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:12 pm 
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The Tunneling/Burrowing wouldn't be Transport in the traditional sense.  It's not like Trygons could glide over and pick up a bunch of Gaunts to run them across the board.  It would basically just allow some non-Trygons to Tunnel as well.  No actual transport would be involved.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Experimental] Independent Burrowing Trygons
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:16 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Feb. 28 2007,15:12)
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The Tunneling/Burrowing wouldn't be Transport in the traditional sense. ?It's not like Trygons could glide over and pick up a bunch of Gaunts to run them across the board. ?It would basically just allow some non-Trygons to Tunnel as well. ?No actual transport would be involved.

But then we're heading into the territory of *another* Special Rule... *laugh*

If people are interested in Indy Trygons ("Throw me the idol!") try them out on their own first, then we can talk about them bringing friends.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: [Experimental] Independent Burrowing Trygons
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:36 pm 
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At a glance I like the tunneling rules and they seem to fit the Tyranids (I can't help but conjure up images of Starship Troopers).  

With that said, I believe the less special rules the better.  It seems that there are a lot of ideas for the Tyranids that are great but all of them together make them too fiddly.  Is there room in the Epic universe for two (or more) Tyranid lists, each with their own distinctive flare and sets of rules?  Much like the lists differ for Orks to Feral Orks to Orkamedies to whatever, could there be a Tyranid variant list that could capture some of these great ideas and sacrifice some of the more classic special rules?

Throwin' it out there...

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Experimental] Independent Burrowing Trygons
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:42 pm 
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(Moscovian @ Feb. 28 2007,15:36)
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Throwin' it out there...

So far there's CS's "Seeding Swarm", ragnarok's "Bio-Tank Swarm" and my "Attack Swarm" for variant lists... though I don't think any of them strip away any special rules. ?I like the idea of variant lists. (I wish someone was doing Tau variants... not auxilia, I love the Gue'senshi!, but *Tau* variants.)

The "Seeding Swarm" changes organization, removes some units, and adds/changes special rules.

The "Bio-Tank Swarm" radically changes organization and makes it a treadhead list (which would be scary!).

And the "Attack Swarm" removes a lot of units, adds a couple others, and shakes other things up.

Really though, I think core Tyranids still need the main focus of fine-tuning before variants are something that should be strongly looked at.




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ragnarok
 Post subject: [Experimental] Independent Burrowing Trygons
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:14 pm 
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My tread head list removes the spawning and synapse special rules and add a new one that restricts order choice for some formations without synpase, and is designed with the premise that Trygons will have some sort of tunneling ability.

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Soren
 Post subject: [Experimental] Independent Burrowing Trygons
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:05 am 
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As long as the basic tyranid list is far away from being finished, we should not consider doing work on two or three other variant lists. That will not work.

One step after another.....

regarding to Trygons: I don?t think that transporting units via tunneling would add something to the list. You already have to opportunity to use your nodes to bring units in the opposing half of the table (spawning) and pick them up with fast synapses. (with winged warriors, Tyrants and our bio flyers, there are plenty choices to get in there)

The whole thing gets far to complicated to be handled correct. Keep em simple, better than doing extra things for every unit. The Tyranid list now features plentyful choices, regardless which style of playing you prefer. Take a look at the basic lists. This is the design principle we should consider to use also on this list. Now all things are getting more complicated with every review of the list.

This is the wrong way I think.

my 0,002 cent

Soren




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