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Tyranid v7.1
Ilushia	Post subject: Tyranid v7.1 Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:10 am
Brood Brother Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:50 am Posts: 1189	Quote (Evil and Chaos @ 23 May 2006 (01:05)) Hierophant Type /Speed /Armor /Close Combat /Firefight WE /25cm /4+ /3+ /5+ Weapons /Range /Firepower /Notes Monstrous Claws /Base Contact /MWTK(D3) /CC weapon +3 attacks Lash Whips (CC ability) Number of attacks against the Heirophant in CC are halved (Rounding up). Cluster Spines /(15cm) /small arms Notes: DC-6, Reinforced Armor, Walker, Independent. May step over units and impassable or dangerous terrain that is lower then the war engines knees and up to 2cm wide. Critical Hit: Roll 1D6 and consult the chart below. 1-3: The Hierophant loses one DC. 4-5: Heirophant loses one DC and staggers D6cm in a random direction. Any models touched by the staggering Heirophant recieves a MW6+ attack. If the Heirophant impacts a building during its stagger, it comes to a stop, but loses a second DC. 6: The Hierophant is killed. Changes from V7.1: - Breath attack removed, this attack doesn't exist in the 40k version of the Heirophant, there's no reason for it to exist in the new titan, especially if the Hydraphant has the same attack and does not contradict the 40k rules system (Since the Hydraphant does not exist there). - Extra attacks from Monstrous Claws increased from +2 to +3 attacks. A Heirophant is just about the most dangerous CC opponent in 40k, it should be so in Epic too. - Lash Whips added, A Heirophant is a CC-based titan, and it should have strengths in that area that compensate for the removal of the Space Marine-era breath weapon. - Critical hit result 4-5 added. A characterful 'stagger', similar in function to a Warhound's. Though less likely to hit, the huge crushing legs inflict MW-class attacks. Neat idea.. But why the lack of Bio-cannons and Poison Spores? I admit I don't have IA4, but under all the previous printings of the Hierophant in 40K rules it's got two Bio-Cannons... Any particular reason they were removed from this one? I dunno about the Lash Whips... That could get really messy in terms of combat ability and halving the number of attacks against it. I'd assume you mean halve the number per formation (So 13 strong formation gets 7 attacks) but it's a bit more complex then I think is needed... I'd much rather see this thing get 2x Bio-Cannons. To keep it in line with the idea that it's a huge, killer bug. And not just something which can kill stuff up close and personal (which it still can).
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Eric.R.	Post subject: Tyranid v7.1 Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:11 am
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:34 pm Posts: 38 Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada	Ahh, yes I relised after that there was template AA.  Seeing that I have neither of those units and I was under the assumption that there was not going to be template AA (as previously discussed a long time back) I must have skimed past this quite often.
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Evil and Chaos	Post subject: Tyranid v7.1 Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:13 am
Brood Brother Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am Posts: 20887 Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire	Quote (Chroma @ 23 May 2006 (01:55)) Quote (Evil and Chaos @ 23 May 2006 (01:05)) ***New Unit*** Barbed Hierodule The Barbed Hierodule was removed from the list because it started showing up *after* the Hamman's World invasion, which is what this current Tyranid list models. Future Tyranid lists (Seeding Swarm, Splinter Fleet, etc) may include other models than the current list. Well if it's just a matter of fluff, why not change the fleet to the Moran invasion fleet. Moran was the planet invaded by the Hamman's world invasion fleet immediately after it finished eating Hamman's world. This is where the Barbed Hierodule first appeared. Apart from that the fleet would have the exact same composition, since it is the same hive fleet, just a couple of months down the line. Let's face it, there's going to be a model made for the Barbed Hierodule by ForgeWorld, why not change the world being invaded rather than write off one of the very few new models we're likely to get! _________________ Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
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Evil and Chaos	Post subject: Tyranid v7.1 Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:15 am
Brood Brother Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am Posts: 20887 Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire	Quote (Ilushia @ 23 May 2006 (02:10)) Neat idea.. But why the lack of Bio-cannons and Poison Spores? I admit I don't have IA4, but under all the previous printings of the Hierophant in 40K rules it's got two Bio-Cannons... Any particular reason they were removed from this one? I dunno about the Lash Whips... That could get really messy in terms of combat ability and halving the number of attacks against it. I'd assume you mean halve the number per formation (So 13 strong formation gets 7 attacks) but it's a bit more complex then I think is needed... I'd much rather see this thing get 2x Bio-Cannons. To keep it in line with the idea that it's a huge, killer bug. And not just something which can kill stuff up close and personal (which it still can). The bio-cannons aren't in the 7.1 list for some reason. I've added them back into my proposed changes, the 40k version most definitely has two Bio Cannons! Yes I did intend that the lash whips would reduce each formation's CC attacks by half, round up. In 40k, this ability works by reducing each attacking model's attacks by 1, to a minimum of 1, which obviously wouldn't work in Epic. The end result of the two systems should have roughly the same effect however. _________________ Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
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Eric.R.	Post subject: Tyranid v7.1 Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:19 am
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:34 pm Posts: 38 Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada	Oh, and cause I am anal about these things: Instead of using a lower case 'X' for multiplication use '?' (Alt+0215).  It looks better, especially when using a serif font.  x? It changes nothing, though it is a big thing for those who are anal about document formating . . . .
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Chroma	Post subject: Tyranid v7.1 Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:22 am
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm Posts: 9684 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada	Quote (Evil and Chaos @ 23 May 2006 (02:15)) Yes I did intend that the lash whips would reduce each formation's CC attacks by half, round up. What about units with Extra Attacks, especially with special abilities, how is which attacks are nullified and which go through determined? _________________ "EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
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Ilushia	Post subject: Tyranid v7.1 Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:35 am
Brood Brother Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:50 am Posts: 1189	Quote (Evil and Chaos @ 23 May 2006 (02:15)) Quote (Ilushia @ 23 May 2006 (02:10)) Neat idea.. But why the lack of Bio-cannons and Poison Spores? I admit I don't have IA4, but under all the previous printings of the Hierophant in 40K rules it's got two Bio-Cannons... Any particular reason they were removed from this one? I dunno about the Lash Whips... That could get really messy in terms of combat ability and halving the number of attacks against it. I'd assume you mean halve the number per formation (So 13 strong formation gets 7 attacks) but it's a bit more complex then I think is needed... I'd much rather see this thing get 2x Bio-Cannons. To keep it in line with the idea that it's a huge, killer bug. And not just something which can kill stuff up close and personal (which it still can). The bio-cannons aren't in the 7.1 list for some reason. I've added them back into my proposed changes, the 40k version most definitely has two Bio Cannons! Yes I did intend that the lash whips would reduce each formation's CC attacks by half, round up. In 40k, this ability works by reducing each attacking model's attacks by 1, to a minimum of 1, which obviously wouldn't work in Epic. The end result of the two systems should have roughly the same effect however. Bio-Cannons are in the v7.1 list... They're on Harridans, they're just not on Heirodules or Hierophants. The lash whips are a neat idea, but I suspect they'd be too messy to try and figure out. Chroma makes a good point with the extra attacks. I'd probably take the Lashwhips out, myself. And instead give it something like 'Spore Cloud/Assault Weapon/Base Contact/Extra Attacks +1 per unit in range'. Might make it too good, but it'd be vastly less confusing and easier to deal with then trying to figure out how you halve someone's attacks... Good example would be a group of Terminators: 4 normal and 4 MW attacks. Do you reduce them from 8 attacks to 4, of the attacker's choice. Or from 4+4 to 2+2. Or do you use some other method of deciding which 'half' the attacks are lost?
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Jaldon	Post subject: Tyranid v7.1 Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 6:25 am
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:38 am Posts: 720 Location: Utah, pick a Pacific Island the other half of the year.	Lictors now at 75 points each?!   Ooooops Typo they haven't been changed my mistake 50pts each I fixed it. _________________ Brave sir Robin, when danger reared its ugly head he bravely turned his tail and fled, Brave sir Robin.

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Jaldon	Post subject: Tyranid v7.1 Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 6:27 am
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:38 am Posts: 720 Location: Utah, pick a Pacific Island the other half of the year.	ForgeWorld stats are considered non-legal for tournament use, Umm that was the point the list we are working on is for tournament use. The OOP section is for units not for tournament use. Jaldon _________________ Brave sir Robin, when danger reared its ugly head he bravely turned his tail and fled, Brave sir Robin.

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Jaldon	Post subject: Tyranid v7.1 Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 6:36 am
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:38 am Posts: 720 Location: Utah, pick a Pacific Island the other half of the year.	To give some idea as to where I am now headed in the Spawning bit of the list. We did mess with this for awhile and I did like the results it was returning so I put it up with this list. Basically it results in the Nid Army devolving into the lesser brood creatures as the battle progresses, rather then all of the big brutes sliding back onto the table. It felt right. Thanks All, Sorry about the Lictor panic I caused Jaldon _________________ Brave sir Robin, when danger reared its ugly head he bravely turned his tail and fled, Brave sir Robin.
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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Tyranid v7.1 Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 12:19 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am Posts: 20887 Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

Quote (Jaldon @ 23 May 2006 (06:27)) ForgeWorld stats are considered non-legal for tournament use, Umm that was the point the list we are working on is for tournament use. The OOP section is for units not for tournament use. Jaldon Yes but the 40k units aren't for tournament use, not because they're not balanced, but because they tend to cost 800 points each and tend to dominate a game! In Epic, these units are expected to be there! Quite frankly, ForgeWorld (With the full authority of the design studio) have laid down how some of the Titan class creatures now operate in the 40k universe. I don't think we should give them extra/different abilities just to hark back to the past, especially if it breaks continuity with the rest of the universe. The Future: In all published materiels, a Hierophant has two bio cannons & lash-whips, yet in Epic it has bio-plasmic breath and spore cannons? It won't happen, the studio will take one look at the 7.1 rules and scrap them. _________________ Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

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Evil and Chaos	Post subject: Tyranid v7.1 Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 12:27 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am Posts: 20887 Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire	[quote="Ilushia,23 May 2006 (02:35)"][/quote] "Bio-Cannons are in the v7.1 list... " They should be. The ForgeWorld model will have very obvious Bio-Cannons. "The lash whips are a neat idea, but I suspect they'd be too messy to try and figure out." Lash whips specifically reduce the number of the enemy's attacks in CC in 40k. I'm not sure I see what's so hard to do. At the begining of every Epic combat everyone always works out the number of CC attacks they have. This just adds one extra stage to it, reducing by half each type of attack. Thus: - 1 Macro Weapon Attack & 5 Normal Attacks Would become: (1 Macro Weapon Attack Halved is 1) (5 Normal Attacks Halved is 2.5, round up to 3 as is normal with Epic) And the end result of 5 seconds of Maths is: - 1 Macro Weapon Attack & 3 Normal Attacks The alternative I'd suggest would be to increase the enemy's CC value by 1. So 4+ CC would become 5+, etc. Lash Whips very specifically work against enemy attacks, not increase the Hierophant's abilities. _________________ Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
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Lightbringer	Post subject: Tyranid v7.1 Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 1:32 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:09 am Posts: 276	Hiya guys Thanks for the new list Jaldon - I'm loving where this list is heading! I'll be giving 7.1 a test next month against Captain Belli, Orkybob et al. I think my they will be please to see the new spawning changes - I happen to like the idea of the army disintigrating towards common broods as attrition kicks in. I will swap the haruspex A and B's extra attacks over giving the Malefactor +2 EA CC MW (TK +1) - that said I still have problems geting these beasties into base to base contact. I can't really add anything to the bio-titan discussion I'm afriad so will duck out again at this point. Keep your eyes open for my second report with pictures courtesy of Orkybob again. (Oh and I still think the Harridan is too weak for the points and if it stays at DC2,the critical is pointless as its a straight kill) Lightbringer _________________ Overseer Lightbringer II
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