Results and Comments from Oakville |
|
ragnarok
|
Post subject: Results and Comments from Oakville  Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 12:16 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
 |
 |
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 2084
Location: Reading, England
|
|
The 'crons get to use both types of spawning. True they also have BM management to deal with, but all their units have spawn value 1.
Possible, if we go for dual spawning, we could have it that there is no modifiers to the roll in the end phase. Ie it is a stright D3/D6, but if you choose to marshall then you get the bonuses for bigger synpase creatures, mycetic spore ect.
This could represent the differance between creatures blindly wandering back into synapse range ("slavery, glourious slavery to the hive mond") and the synpase creatures concentrating on finding where the little guys are hiding/asking mom for more meat for the grinder.
On a related note. Why must the new units be placed 5cm away from the synapse creature. Surely they should be 15cm away, right on the edge of the synpase range. I can't see them being able to get that close without the hive mind noticing them.
_________________
Tyranid air marshal
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Tactica
|
Post subject: Results and Comments from Oakville Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 3:18 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am
Posts: 2241
|
|
Be advised, mid turn spawning of any kind allows AA cycling. AA is the only issue with mid-turn cyclying of the same unit as it doesn't require an activation to be utilized in a turn....
However... you could say that only nid AA that has remained on the field from the start of the turn can fire at aircraft in the same turn - and that would solve that problem!
Hmm... I'll need to think on this. With an AA clause like the above, pushing the focus of replenishment to mid turn with minimum reinforcement coming at end of turn from initiative roll and making sure that neither effect is replenishing so much that entire dead piles are coming back each turn... yeah, I think you might be on to something.
I definitely like the idea of bringing back the decision of the bug player to mid-turn spawn (marshal) for activation or march/engage/shoot... It resembles the synapse/hive mind taking some kind of pro-active role in maintaining the horde. I also like the reduction of auto-reinforce at end turn. Game impact considerations appear to be positive *IF* the above is minded...
_________________
Rob
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Lightbringer
|
Post subject: Results and Comments from Oakville Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 4:27 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
 |
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:09 am
Posts: 276
|
I like this idea too.
The units spawning points would need to be tweaked so that end-turn spawning only brings back a trickle of bugs without the possibility of mass regeneration. This would add yet another layer to bug strategy which can only be a good thing from a players perspective.
Lightbringer
_________________
Overseer Lightbringer II
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
ragnarok
|
Post subject: Results and Comments from Oakville Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 7:09 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
|
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 2084
Location: Reading, England
|
|
Another layer of stategy! What have I done. What happened to just run forwards and consume?
However if we want to act like prey things and think and have plans what about the following for spawning.
On a Marshal action
D3 + spawning bonus + D3 per mycetic spore spawning points
End phase
pass rally teat?
D3 +D3 if more than 30cm from prey, common brood units only
_________________
Tyranid air marshal
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Tactica
|
Post subject: Results and Comments from Oakville Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 5:39 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am
Posts: 2241
|
|
OK,
I've thought about the split of lessor marshalling to spawn mid turn plus reduced end phase reconstitution when coupled with a rule stopping AA cycling as noted in my previous post.
Jaldon, as others have pointed out - I think this may have some merit in testing.
I think it will stop some of the bug power gaming, reduce the alarming level of spawning, has a caveat to cover the old AA cycling, and will put some genuinely enjoyable 'choices' of play into the bug player's tool belt. There's also a penalty for 'only' relying on the end phase auto spawn.
These all seem like good developments for the list.
I'd like to hear your comments on the above when you've had a chance to read through this thread Jaldon.
Cheers for the time and reply in advance,
_________________
Rob
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Jaldon
|
Post subject: Results and Comments from Oakville Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 1:36 am |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:38 am
Posts: 720
Location: Utah, pick a Pacific Island the other half of the year.
|
Sorry, had a system crash that kept me off line for the last couple of days. 
I admit the idea of mixed mid to end turn spawning is an interesting idea to consider, and I will give it some thought over the weekend. Let me cook up some ideas to playtest (I'll post em), but let's keep it unofficial for now.
I really want to see where the end turn spawning is going to go. The system crash kept me from posting some lower spawning values that we were going to use this weekend.
Dominatrix 2D3+3
Hive Tyrant 1D3+2
Tyranid Warriors 1D3+1
Harridan 1D3+1
Vituperator 1D3+2
Greater Synapse Node 1D3+2
Lesser Synapse Node 1D3+1
AND treat it as a normal rally roll, with a -1 for enemy within 30cms, thus the Nids would need a 3+ to spawn if enemy where within 30cms.
Thanks All....................
Jaldon 
_________________
Brave sir Robin, when danger reared its ugly head he bravely turned his tail and fled, Brave sir Robin.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Ilushia
|
Post subject: Results and Comments from Oakville Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 1:57 am |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:50 am
Posts: 1189
|
|
The only inherent problem I see with mid-turn spawning is that it makes delivering the 'hammer blow' which finishes a swarm off very very hard. For instance, even with Jaldon's lower spawn-rate AND a limit of one Mycetic Spore I can field a squad with 2 Hive Tyrants and 6 Carnifexes easily inside 2700 points. Killing enough of the Carnifexes to even get to shoot at the Tyrants is going to be very hard. And require several formations working together. Under current rules, you get two activations and use them to hammer me. Taking out all but two Carnifexes and my Hive Tyrants. Now I've got a severly depleted swarm. It's likely that even if I take it and march it into cover you'll annihilate it before the end of the turn. On the other hand, if I activate it and 'marshal' to respawn I would get 3d3+4 dice of respawn, on the spot. That's roughly 10 or so spawn-points on average. Enough to get back 3 of my Carnifexes, meaning you're basically back to square one fighting me.
Do Tyranids require a different style of combat then other armies? Heck yeah. Should they? Definitely. You won't win against Tyranids by playing blast-marker placing, or breaking units, neither of them are effective here. And neither will be any more effective by making the enemy use activations to respawn. All that does is allow the individual to suddenly regrow his swarm mid-turn before you can finish it.
That said, I do think that the respawn activation should be a Rally roll not an Activation roll. This allows the enemy to keep the pressure on and make it significantly less likely you'll fail to spawn. And the lower spawn-bonuses seems a wise idea.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Jaldon
|
Post subject: Results and Comments from Oakville Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 5:40 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:38 am
Posts: 720
Location: Utah, pick a Pacific Island the other half of the year.
|
Ilushia
Woa, slow down my friend, I definitely DO NOT want to go back to the mid-turn "here is your horde back" days. I will not allow that to happen.
At present I have two ideas in the works for spawning in general, and both of them would dovetail nicely into a sorta emergency mid-turn spawning that would not return the horde to the board.
In any case if the idea does upset balance in spawning then it will be dropped, but it isn't going to hurt to give it a try.
Thanks All..................
Jaldon
_________________
Brave sir Robin, when danger reared its ugly head he bravely turned his tail and fled, Brave sir Robin.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Ilushia
|
Post subject: Results and Comments from Oakville Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 11:47 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:50 am
Posts: 1189
|
|
Actually, Jaldon, that was more or less so exactly my point. Several people on here seem to believe that mid-turn spawning was 'ok' because it just allowed you to save a horde from dieing. My point was that it makes it entirely too easy to undo almost an entire turn's worth of shooting instantly. Under the current list you can undo most or all of the brood deaths, but it's far more likely that you'll lose unreplaceable synapse creatures with end-turn spawning the mid-turn spawning.
Sorry if it came off sounding like I was in favor of mid-turn spawning (i'm really not, it just feels like a fantastically bad idea to me).
|
|
| Top |
|
|
