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[ 4 posts ]

7.0 Playtest Games
nealhunt	Post subject: 7.0 Playtest Games Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:45 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	I finally got a playtest game in (woo hoo!! ) and was also able to discuss the games the other guys had played in detail.  The breadth of experience is not great as the Nids were primarily gaunt-based armies and the opponents were all various flavors of Orks.  Nonetheless, there seems to be some common themes that should hold across other kinds of battles. ==== Spawning:  The feel of the end-of-turn spawning is VASTLY better.  It does, however, have a few side effects that might not be so great. 1)  It multiplies the value of synapse creature formations.  Not only is there the normal activation count issues, but now each synapse generates its own broods constantly.  Some of that is mitigated by more expensive SCs getting more spawning.  Overall, though, the bigger SCs seem to be somewhat frowned upon and I think this may aggravate that problem. 2)  It's a bit too fast.  In pretty much every turn of every game played, virtually the entire Nid army has regenerated every turn. Even without Mycetic Spores it happens.  In some of the games my friends played, the Nids had excess spawning capacity every turn and never used a spore.  It should be possible, barely, to wear down a swarm that comes charging willy-nilly across the battlefield at you. Regeneration:  While I don't think that the average regeneration is too fast, it is highly randomized and can result in some amazing recoveries, especially for the 8DC beasties. Firefight Tactics:  I didn't use this, but a tactic they reported from previous games was essentially a variant on a Tyranid token assault.  The Nid player moved some of the FF-strong units into range for support.  Then they did multiple assaults on the target formation with token troops.  The goals was NOT to win the assault.  In fact, that was almost a bad thing.  The goal was to inflict casualties via the supporting fire.  Even with the new assault rules, it won't stop that.  They can throw enough Hormagaunts into the mix that the enemy is highly unlikely to stall the assault by killing all of them. This is obviously what prompted the "they are FF monsters" comment.  The "monsters" in question were either 250 point Heirophants or a formation of Haruspex (FF version) and Trygons. To be fair, part of the problem was that they were allowing broods to move out of coherency and not killing them off at the end of the move so SCs were sending waves of troops to start the assaults.  Nonetheless, the tactic would work almost as well without that. Units:  Some minor concern about the Trygons' price, but certainly not to the point anyone thinks it is broken.  And, obviously, you saw the previous comments about Raveners which are being adjusted.  Other than that, the broods, SCs and biotitans feel just about right.  No comment on Stealers and Lictors as they haven't been used.  Same for the arty units. Garrison "tricks":  They haven't been using any of the 0cm garrison/handoff the broods tricks to "deep garrison" troops that would otherwise be unable to do so.  When I described them and we discussed it, they pretty much felt that such things were bordering on cheesy.  Starting so close would undoubtedly have aggravated the spawn speed issue. ==Suggestions== Spawning:  Reduce the amount of spawning.  The ideas we kicked around were 1) reduce to d3 as the base - ~-1.5 per swarm, per turn and less randomness 2) reduce the "bonus" numbers by 2 - possible exceptions for Dom (leave at +6) and lesser nodes (leave at d6 or drop to d3) 3) modify the mycetic spores to 15 points, +d3 Regeneration:  We really don't know.  As noted, it's not the average that is a problem.  It's the potential mega-regen.  Also, it may look very different against forces with better TK options than the armies that have been played so far. Firefight:  Tweak some of the FF values is justa bout the only thing we could think of.  The problem units are mostly the WEs because you can pack in a lot of FF firepower in a small area.  You could use a horde of Termagaunts to do the same thing, but it would be much more difficult due to space constraints. Garrison Nodes:  Either revised garrison standards for Nids or disallowing it outright. == Hope some of that is helpful. _________________ Neal
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Jaldon

Post subject: 7.0 Playtest Games Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:30 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:38 am Posts: 720 Location: Utah, pick a Pacific Island the other half of the year.

First Off Thanks Neal Spawning: ?The feel of the end-of-turn spawning is VASTLY better. ?It does, however, have a few side effects that might not be so great. The feel is about right, as the boom here is your new horde, IS now gone. 1) ?It multiplies the value of synapse creature formations. ?Not only is there the normal activation count issues, but now each synapse generates its own broods constantly. ?Some of that is mitigated by more expensive SCs getting more spawning. ?Overall, though, the bigger SCs seem to be somewhat frowned upon and I think this may aggravate that problem.

It does aggrevate the big-small problem to some degree, but it isn't all encompassing, thankfully.

It's a bit too fast. ?In pretty much every turn of every game played, virtually the entire Nid army has regenerated every turn. Even without Mycetic Spores it happens. ?In some of the games my friends played, the Nids had excess spawning capacity every turn and never used a spore. ?It should be possible, barely, to wear down a swarm that comes charging willy-nilly across the battlefield at you.


It is too fast and I have been messing around with ways to slow it down.

Regeneration: ?While I don't think that the average regeneration is too fast, it is highly randomized and can result in some amazing recoveries, especially for the 8DC beasties.


It is going to be reduced to 1/2 DC rounded up, while the randomness is nice, it has had some startling results even in some of our games that had titan killer weapons around. Combined with the lower cost WEs this should work it out fine.

This is obviously what prompted the "they are FF monsters" comment. ?The "monsters" in question were either 250 point Heirophants or a formation of Haruspex (FF version) and Trygons.


We have encountered essentially the same problem and for awhile I was really at a loss what to do about it. Your original post was too vague, for good reason, and it really was hard to know exactly what the issue was then. Hydraphants and Hierodules are pulling off the same things.

Spawning: ?Reduce the amount of spawning.

Yes

1) reduce to d3 as the base - ~-1.5 per swarm, per turn and less randomness

An idea we have tossed around also.

2) reduce the "bonus" numbers by 2 - possible exceptions for Dom (leave at +6) and lesser nodes (leave at d6 or drop to d3)


We have used different fixed numbers both to create bigger seperation between the different synapse creatures, and to roll back spawning.

3) modify the mycetic spores to 15 points, +d3


Hadn't even thought about this one, and I actually like it. I am going to have to mess with these numbers a bit, and see what it looks like. Then give it a go

Tweak some of the FF values is justa bout the only thing we could think of. ?The problem units are mostly the WEs because you can pack in a lot of FF firepower in a small area. ?You could use a horde of Termagaunts to do the same thing, but it would be much more difficult due to space constraints.


The Norn Queen Report I'll be posting by Monday/Tuesday addresses this problem, and some others, with the Nid AVs and WEs. Basically I am going to make them better at CC and a little poorer at FF. Consider it being something like all WEs and AVs having CC3+ and FF5+ except for the Carns which don't change.

Garrison Nodes: ?Either revised garrison standards for Nids or disallowing it outright

Again, the Norn Queen report goes into real depth on this issue, basically it is not going to be possible to do this anymore. The Report goes into real depth as to why.

Hope some of that is helpful.

Always, and thank you..............

Jaldon