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[BatRep] Termagant Terror Battle 3
Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] Termagant Terror Battle 3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:05 pm 
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Quote (Hena @ 09 Mar. 2006 (19:56))
Perhaps the two warriors are too good of a selection from synapse. I really wouldn't want to up the termagants and making a cap on common brood feels silly.

The thing about the "Common Cap" is that, in a Phase IV army, there *should* be other things than just Common Broods.

The Termagant Terror list is, more likely, a perfect example of a Phase III Attack army, as opposed to a Subdual one.

I think, for what they can do, Termagants are a *steal* at 10 points... I think they were better balanced at 15 a pop.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] Termagant Terror Battle 3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:33 pm 
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Quote (Hena @ 09 Mar. 2006 (20:26))
This I might agree. But their engage move is annoyingly slow... oh well. It worked out ok in WIP with 15 points.

That's why you garrison them... all.  *laugh*

Slow or not, you can do a lot with them, and they "project" 30 cm when engaging.

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clausewitz
 Post subject: [BatRep] Termagant Terror Battle 3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:51 pm 
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I really think the lessening of Termagants to 10 points and the 100 point twin-warriors has a far more synergistic effect than first realized.  

The thing about the "Common Cap" is that, in a Phase IV army, there *should* be other things than just Common Broods.

I think that the statement about 10 point termagants and 100 point TW formations is indeed the key.

Even with a 50% cap on common broods it possible to create basically the same army.

50% of 2700 is 1350, which is 135 Termangants.
8 2 TW synapse groups is 800.
2 3x Lictor swarms is 300, with 50 for 2 Mycetic Spores.
Which leaves 200 points, which could nicely add a Zoanthrope to every TW formation, eliminating the weakness to aircraft from the list.

The synapse groups need to be somewhat expensive.  Otherwise the Nids can easily maintain a large activation advantage.  Breaking the swarms doesn't stop them from acting.  Nearly wiping them out only delays them for a turn while they spawn.


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Markconz
 Post subject: [BatRep] Termagant Terror Battle 3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:09 pm 
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I haven't been watching the tyranid development closely for a while, but I know that I argued agaisnt the 10 pt termi whenever it came up. Looks like the two warrior brood is causing major problems as well.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] Termagant Terror Battle 3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:52 pm 
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Quote (clausewitz @ 09 Mar. 2006 (20:51))
The thing about the "Common Cap" is that, in a Phase IV army, there *should* be other things than just Common Broods.

I think that the statement about 10 point termagants and 100 point TW formations is indeed the key.

Even with a 50% cap on common broods it possible to create basically the same army.

Well, I was considering the "Common Cap" in light of Termagants being 15 points and, most likely, no twin-warrior synapse groups.

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clausewitz
 Post subject: [BatRep] Termagant Terror Battle 3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:27 pm 
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Well, I was considering the "Common Cap" in light of Termagants being 15 points and, most likely, no twin-warrior synapse groups.

Yup, I thought of that...

Came out as..

6x 3 TW synapse groups
90 Termagants
4 Zoanthropes
2x 3 Lictor swarms
2x Mycetic Spores

Certainly less units and activations than the current TT list.  Going by your battle reports is somewhat sounds as though you could have managed with 2 less swarms.  What do you think Chroma?

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Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] Termagant Terror Battle 3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:48 pm 
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Quote (clausewitz @ 09 Mar. 2006 (22:27))
Certainly less units and activations than the current TT list. ?Going by your battle reports is somewhat sounds as though you could have managed with 2 less swarms. ?What do you think Chroma?

I'd say it would make a huge difference as I was having swarms, basically, do nothing but wait around as reserves/guards.  With fewer, they'd all have to work for their meals.

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clausewitz
 Post subject: [BatRep] Termagant Terror Battle 3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:58 pm 
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I'd say it would make a huge difference as I was having swarms, basically, do nothing but wait around as reserves/guards.  With fewer, they'd all have to work for their meals.

Lol, do the Nids need a couple of extra swarms to act as waiters? :p

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Markconz
 Post subject: [BatRep] Termagant Terror Battle 3
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:01 am 
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Perhaps we should test that 15 point termi and 3 warrior synapse list? I tested lists that started to approach that several editions ago (I think I used about 60 termis and 20 hormis, 2 x3 lictors, and some biovores). They were still very nasty...




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Tactica
 Post subject: [BatRep] Termagant Terror Battle 3
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:28 am 
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Quote (Chroma @ 09 Mar. 2006 (12:04))
Quote (Tactica @ 09 Mar. 2006 (17:54))
Are Tyranid Objectives 1 and 2 too close to the table edges?

Seems like they are closer than 30cm.

Actually, they're right *on* the table edges... the "neutral" edges, as it were. ?The "more that 30cm from edge" only applies to the opponent's table edge, not all table edges... can make for some *very* interesting placements...

(Don't tell me that's a *second* trick I've taught an old dog Tactica... *cough* rally re-roll *cough*)

Well...  :blush: I guess you have... (again)...

I've always read, "opponent's table edge" as any of the edges on the opponent's half of the table.

However, the language is clearly singular not plural in meaning. Heh...  :80:

Better late than never I suppose - thanks again for the wisdom Chroma!  :(8:


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Tactica
 Post subject: [BatRep] Termagant Terror Battle 3
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:44 am 
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I really think the lessening of Termagants to 10 points and the 100 point twin-warriors has a far more synergistic effect than first realized.  

Heck, I was even considering suggesting that, since this is a Phase IV army list, maybe Common Broods should be "A minimum of 25% up to a maximum of 50% of points may be spent on Common Broods" as a solution.


Wow... well, I'm convinced that there's an unexpected problem here.

The list isn't really even fighting - its just barrelling over with an unstoppable tide. Now - part of that is cool from a fluff perspective, but not to the point that it can't be reasonably beat.

1.  10 pnt termigants are too cheap if the common brood type is not going to be limited. Its just for the sheer amount of wounds. So either raise the points an don't apply a limit or leave them at 10 points and impose a common brood limit.

2. My personal feeling on this is similar to Chromas - this is not meant to be an all termigant legal list. The possibility of it wouldn't matter if they weren't breaking the potential wounds in a turn curve. A certain amount of 'other stuff' should be required to some degree to maintain the wound curve if nothing else.

I go back to what I was telling Hena and Jaldon earlier in Hena's bat rep thread - there's an average number of wounds a given average tourny army can yield. I don't know what it is, but when a list goes over 4 times that amount in its army and the game is only 3-4 turns long - you have a problem. Now - combine that with the immunity of breaking, make them immune to blast markers and combat specialists, and also allow them to regurgitate your dead - now you have the makings of a very imbalanced list.

3.  The cheap synapse clearly cause an ability to have more and more activations to spawn more and more of the dead. So there's a mathematical equation to be explored here. As more synapse activations are available, the higher the probability of mass recovery from any given amount of wounds. Therefore, the cheaper the synapse become while remaining unrestricted, the more impervious the list will come to damage.

As noted in the earlier thread, it will be interesting to see what Jaldon thinks of these bat reps.

Cheers,

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