Hi!

I'll grant you that. I always thought, given its role, that the thunderhawk was somewhat "under armored".

Primarch

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As with the rest of the marine stats, the thunderhawk will be getting an overhaul. As well as it being more well armoured, it carries a bucket load more weapons than the old version, one version even mounts a titan turbo laser compared to the piddly little battlecannon.
Most probably I will keep the old stats for the original brick and introduce mark 2 variants with the better stats.

Matt

Hi,

Just noticed (As I was about to grow a couple of detachments to company size) that there are no longer Vindicator or Predator companies for SM or Imperial Guard forces?

wondering why, does it not fit with the fluff anymore, or were they considered unbalanced/OP?

If they are no longer allowed then i'll just spread my remaining unpainted armour amongst my SM forces.

Cheers,


EDIT: My bad - think i might be getting confused here, SM never had these companies did they? it was only IG?

ah well - I spotted this was raised a few pages back anyway. Would be cool to have them i reckon (not just because I've already undecorated 6 more Imperial Fist vindicators of course!).

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Yeah, for some reason marines didn't get them but guard did.
They will be appearing in the Platinum rules, not sure about Gold.
But if you friends are fine with it I wouldn't see a problem with fielding a Predator Company for approximately 600pts (Command Tank plus 3 Detachments of 3 tanks) and the Vindicator Company for 450pts. That is just the cost of 3 detachments and you get the command tank for free. Might not be completely accurate but it would give you something to use.

Matt

Hi!

It was one of those "wierd" changes going from first edition to second edition where predators and vindicators were slotted to support for marines and companies pklus support for IG.

Go figure.

Primarch

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Perhaps the older Thunderhawk model could be re-purposed (for NetEpic anyway) into representing the Stormraven? I'm guessing there is no actual Epic scaled model for this already. Admittedly, this would somewhat hurt me as I would then have no Thunderhawk minis at all, but if the scale works better then perhaps it could at least be mentioned as an option.

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Hi!

That would be an interesting way to use the old small model, but flexibility to use it anyway the player wanted would be good too.

Primarch

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If you make sure you tell your opponent beforehand, I doubt many people would have a problem with using the smaller thunderhawk as something else. As with most of these new rules, there will be a degree of proxying until someone comes up with a way to build the models.

Hi there - I'm still relatively new to NetEpic, and have a question regarding the Space Wolves and the standard SMs.

Space Wolves seem to get an awful lot for a very small point premium.

A Tactical Company (750pts) has 18 infantry stands, and 1 HQ stand, plus 10 rhinos. The HQ stand benefits over the SWs by having Command. The Space Wolf Great Company (800pts) has 20 Infantry Stands, 4 HQ stands (which offsets the loss of Command), the stands each have +1 CAF, and the whole company benefit from the ability to freely swap Rhinos for Razorbacks.

How is the benefit of +5 stands, 3 of which are Wolf Guard, +1 CAF, Razorback swap, worth a premium of 50pts - Command?
I don't really understand the points system calculations, but that seems quite off...

Hi!

Unfortunately your perception is correct. The points system as envisioned by GW is totally "out of whack". You will find things that are priced too generously or over priced for what they do.

Since the Gold version was promised to be "stable", there is not much I can do in the realm of wholesale cost overhauls.

However a gentleman by the username Magnus has made an actual formula to balance and cost things appropriately.

You can see the main thread here:

viewtopic.php?f=146&t=28869

Or the one related specifically with space marines:

viewtopic.php?f=173&t=27314

I personally do not bother with the original points values, but a lot of people use them through custom and perhaps convenience.

You can use the new formula to "redo" anything you deem unacceptable. I know I have.

Primarch

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While I have not yet looked at the Chapter specific models or formations, running them through the calculations would be no more complicated than any other. I may deal with those models & formations at a later date, or possibly sooner. You've gotten me curious just how they would compare, so I may just go and poke at those tonight.

Once, long long ago, when someone asked GW about how they went about figuring out what points values things should be, if there was a formula, and if so then please share it, they responded by saying that no, there is no formula and that points values are assigned by how powerful the group of things "feels like". In other words, it is an art form, not a science. Well, was.

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Hi!

If it was an "art form", it was probably the equivalent of me drawing stick figures.

It be interesting to see you calculations for some of the special chapters, I would not be surprised if there is some serious under-costing.

Primarch

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Well, I've done the Space Wolves. The others will have to wait.

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Hi,

does anyone remembered when attack bikes were errated to 225 points ? Unless profil has changed, why should they cost more than land speeders ?

Hi!

Quite some time ago, if I recall (at least a year maybe more).

As to why they should cost more than landspeeders, no clue.

To be frank Scream, given the new formula I don't really pay attention to the old way of doing things.

You may think that its not worth more than landspeeders, but apparently others disagree. There is no wrong answer. It depends on whom you ask.

From my point of view I am just glad I don't have to do these value judgements anymore. I have an objective methodology now (formula) and that is what I use.

I suggest to you the same things I would suggest to all whom still use the old cost method.

Change the costs to your taste. If you think that value is too costly, change it. No one can really argue that your value is better or worse. They are all equally arbitrary/valid by this method.

Primarch

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