Hi!

Magnus, the hierodule costs are higher than the hierophant costs, mistake?

Also, the pre-change cost look pretty good and these, the newer cost is astronomically higher than the previous one. Formation discounts seems to make a huge difference for them.

Some closer look at bio-titan costing needs to be done to reign in the cost of these.

Also, we need to "fix" the pyro-acid spray cost. It not remotely as useful as the cost would imply.

Thanks!

Primarch

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Good catch on the Hierophant formation cost. I forgot to change the value, but did update the amount by which it increased. That is updated now. Interestingly, the Model Cost was adjusted and since those are the same now for single-model formations one could just get the cost from there. Still, it is fixed.

Negative. Removing formation discounts was V0.41. They are still removed. The reason the Titan costs went up so much was because of Wounds and Regeneration. As I mentioned in the thread about the Formula itself, I had discovered that I had never actually converted the Tyranid costs over to the new way of doing Wounds. Thus that is causing the majority of the cost increase.

Again, negative. Their costs now accurately reflect their power. Tyranid Bio-Titans are very difficult to kill and thus need to be expensive. You have said that you have very little experience in playing Tyranids. Perhaps you should play them again sometime to get some recent experience.

Still negative. It uses one of the largest templates in the game, and an oddly shaped one at that, and thus can potentially affect many targets simultaneously. It hits on 3+, TSM of -2, Ignores Cover, and Damages Buildings. It actually IS a very useful weapon. Why do you keep saying that it isn't?

Though that brings up another point. I may just go through and adjust weapon abilities like I did with Movement abilities to see if that can make the high-end weapons like the Pyro-Acid Spray and Magnus the Red's Beam of Power (among others) a bit better than they are now.

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Hi!

The pyro-acid spray is a short ranged weapon (even though its a large template, you need to get pretty close to use it effectively).

Its use is very much a weapon of narrow opportunity (its very good if there are lots of targets in cover or buildings which is its only real practical use), however its not much use against shielded targets, not that great versus heavily armored targets (including other titans and Praetorians).

Its not better than the bile launcher, which can also damage buildings, has a 100cm range and better TSM and its not better than the bio-cannon with multiple attack dice, superior range, TSM and penetration.

The only thing it has that that the other two don't is ignore cover. Which is not that great given the bio-titan has to close to range (and be fired upon) in order to use it.

At that cost I'm afraid it just won't see use since other weapons give better options for a similar niche. The template area and ignore cover are just not sufficient to overcome the benefits of range, attack dice and TSM other weapons have.

This is not to say it needs to be "cheap", but like the vibro-cannon for the eldar it can't be more expensive than the bio-cannon, which is the preeminent bio-titan weapons in scope of uses.

Perhaps barrage area covered cost is overemphasized?

Primarch

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Hi!

Oh by the way, I think the hierodule brood and hierophant brood costs are inverted (the hierophant brood should be more expensive).

Primarch

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Hmm, it is possible that template costs may be too high. It seems like we've gone back and forth on this though.

Argh. I also forgot to change the Hierophant Brood cost. Sigh. The change of +3508 with a current cost of 2k should have given that away. Right, that will be fixed momentarily.

Edit: fixed

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Hi!

I'll apply the fix and release the updated comparisons document.

I've commented more fully on barrages and such on the main points formula thread.

Primarch

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OP updated to V0.43

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OP updated to version 0.46, added sample army from pdf.

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