Hi!

It would indeed be a good idea to "stratify" deathrolla ability in accordance to the size of the vehicle.

How would that be accomplished in simple terms?

Primarch

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The Deathrolla on an Ork Super Heavy is not substantially bigger than one on a Vehicle (as far as I can tell from looking at the models) so it should not be able to affect more classes of targets. The only thing that it could perhaps gain would be the ability to push aside survivors so that the model could keep moving after trying to run the target over. I'm not really certain that they should gain that, just that they could.

Actually, there is one other thing that they could gain. Increased accuracy. That is, the Deathrolla on a Super Heavy could hit on a 5+, or even be automatic, to represent the increased power of the model pushing it. Thinking about it, that is probably the way to go. That is:

Normal Deathrolla (on a Vehicle class model) works as noted in the Orks book. Just add a sentence saying that a Deathrolla on a Super Heavy Vehicle class model hits the target on 5+ or that it hits automatically. Then the question is whether it should be 5+ or automatic?

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Hi!

I usually don't favor "auto" hits. But a better chance of hitting would definitely be in order. So I'd go with that.

Primarch

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As was noted earlier, the Overrun itself is an auto-hit. Of course, that uses the entire mass of the model rather than the smaller mass of the Deathrolla, so leaving the auto-hit to just Overrun is probably for the best.

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Overrun hits on a 6+ iirc, it's not an auto-hit.

Right, my bad. Overrun is a 6+ hit. Also, why did I present the Improved Deathrolla being 5+ and saying that would hit more often than 4+? Yeesh, some days I'm just not quite awake. The version for Super Heavy should thus probably be either 3+ or 2+, but still only affect Infantry and Cavalry.

Actually, I just had a thought. Can a Deathrolla affect Light Artillery models? They have the same Pinning Class as Infantry and the same Terrain access, but are a different named class. While some Light Artillery is just a couple of guys and a weapon that is not quite man-portable (Mole Mortar, Shokk Attack Gun), others are almost very light vehicles (Rapier, Thudd Gun, Tarantula, Infantry Gun, Lobba, Hop Splat, Vibro Cannon, etc).

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Hi!

I would say "yes" to your question.

Primarch

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In my opinion, if Deathrolla can be used against light artillery because it is the same pinning class of infantry, he can be used against walkers (the same pinning class of cavalry). But in this case, deathrolla will be more efficient.

I think we can say : "deathrolla can be used against infantry, light artillery and cavalry units but not against walkers if the model with deathrolla is not superheavy model."

We can say too that "superheavy with deathrolla do not stop its move if a infantry or light artillery target of deathrolla survive"

In this case, a superheavy with deathrolla stops its movment only if a deathrolla attack fails against cavalry or walkers.

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Yeah, that is another can of worms opened by saying that Deathrolla affects Light Artillery: Walkers. I agree that non Super Heavy should not be able to affect Walker, but I'm not certain that Super Heavy should be able to either. As csuia mentions, it makes the Deathrolla ability more powerful - perhaps too much so. Also, Walkers generally have more mass to them than a Cavalry stand does and thus should be less able to be subject to being run over with a Deathrolla.

That said, if we do allow Deathrolla to affect Walker at all, I'd say that only a Walker class model could stop a Super Heavy with Deathrolla. That is, assuming we allow the Super Heavy Deathrolla to keep moving if it fails to destroy the target, which I am not in favor of, because it makes the ability even more powerful than it is supposed to be. Cavalry would move out of the way as they are more mobile. Perhaps the more Vehicle-like Light Artillery might stop it, but that may be getting a bit fiddly.

The wording would probably be:

Special Ability: Deathrolla
_ _ This is a large spiked wheel pushed ahead of a Vehicle or Super Heavy that may destroy enemy models that it touches. If the victim is not killed, the model with Deathrolla will end movement. This works slightly differently depending on the Pinning class of the model with the ability.
_ _ Vehicle: Infantry, Light Artillery, or Cavalry models take a hit on a 4+ at a TSM of 0.
_ _ Super Heavy: Infantry, Light Artillery, Cavalry, or Walker models take a hit on 3+ at a TSM of 0.

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a superheavy (size 4) without deathrolla can overrun a walker (size 2). So, it is logical that a superheavy with deathrolla can overrun walkers with deathrolla.

I am not agree with the fact that superheavy's deathrolla hits at 3+. Instead of, I purpose that a superheavy with deathrolla can only stoped if its target is not killed and is a cavalry or a walker. (infantry or light artillery are push like overrun rules in this case).

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Er, there is no "fact" that a Super Heavy's Deathrolla would hit on 3+. It is just one of many proposed things. I should have phrased that differently.

And, no, a model with the Deathrolla ability cannot - er, I mean, should not be able to Overrun anything at all as the Deathrolla ability should override the Overrun rule because Special Abilities in the Faction books always override the core rules. Also, Deathrolla is not an optional ability. A model cannot just choose to not have it in front of itself this turn. It is fixed in position, and thus it has to be taken into consideration. Thus, in my view anyway, any model with Deathrolla cannot use the Overrun rule.

Thus we have a few questions that need answering by as many people as is possible so that we can come to a consensus. As I see them, the questions and their possible answers are:
__________

1) Can a model with Deathrolla also use Overrun?
_ A: No for two reasons. First, because Special Abilities in Faction books override the core rules. Second, because it is not an optional ability, it cannot be 'turned off'.
_ B: Yes because ________ (please specify reason(s)).

2) Can Deathrolla equipped models affect Light Artillery?
_ A: No. They are not listed in the description of the ability.
_ B: Yes. They are basically the same as Infantry class models.
_ C: Yes, but only by Super Heavy class models with Deathrolla.

3) Can Deathrolla equipped models affect Walkers?
_ A: No. They are not listed in the description of the ability.
_ B: Yes. They are basically the same as Cavalry class models.
_ C: Yes, but only by Super Heavy class models with Deathrolla.

4) Should Super Heavy models with Deathrolla have an advantage hitting over Vehicle class models as they are more powerful?
_ A: No. This is not listed in the description of the ability.
_ B: Yes, they should cause a hit more often but not a lot more, say on 3+.
_ C: Yes, they should hit a lot more often, thus on a 2+.

5) Should Vehicle class models with Deathrolla be stopped by a model that survives the Deathrolla attack?
_ A: Yes, this is how it is supposed to work and it works fine that way.
_ B: No, it should be able to keep moving as per Overrun. All surviving models get pushed aside.
_ C: No, it should be able to keep moving as per Overrun. Infantry models get pushed aside, all other classes stop the Deathrolla model.
_ D: No, it should be able to keep moving as per Overrun. Infantry & Light Artillery models get pushed aside, all other classes stop the Deathrolla model.
_ E: No, it should be able to keep moving as per Overrun. Infantry & Cavalry models get pushed aside, all other classes stop the Deathrolla model.
_ F: No, it should be able to keep moving as per Overrun. Infantry, Light Artillery, & Cavalry models get pushed aside, only Walkers stop the Deathrolla model.

6) Should Super Heavy models with Deathrolla be stopped by a model that survives the Deathrolla attack?
_ A: Yes, this is how it is supposed to work and it works fine that way.
_ B: No, it should be able to keep moving as per Overrun. All surviving models get pushed aside.
_ C: No, it should be able to keep moving as per Overrun. Infantry models get pushed aside, all other classes stop the Deathrolla model.
_ D: No, it should be able to keep moving as per Overrun. Infantry & Light Artillery models get pushed aside, all other classes stop the Deathrolla model.
_ E: No, it should be able to keep moving as per Overrun. Infantry & Cavalry models get pushed aside, all other classes stop the Deathrolla model.
_ F: No, it should be able to keep moving as per Overrun. Infantry, Light Artillery, & Cavalry models get pushed aside, only Walkers stop the Deathrolla model.
__________

My responses to the above questions would be:
1: A
2: B
3: C
4: B
5: A
6: A

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My responses
1: A
2: B
3: C
4: A (iwith this, 6 = D ^^)
5: A
6: D (because 4 = A ^^)

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Right, well, I asked the above questions on Facebook to attempt to gather a lot more responses. Unfortunately, only four people actually did respond. Still, it's a bit more than what is here. Results follow, though I still not happy with the sample size, so I'm having problems calling this a "consensus". If others place their votes in this thread, they will be considered, but otherwise I'm considering this reasonably finalized.
__________

Question 1:
Out of 6 people, five voted for A while one voted for B. The reason given by the person who voted for B was "Common Sense", which seeing as he is outvoted 5 to 1 is rendered invalid. A wins.

Question 2:
Out of 6 people, all of them voted for B. B wins.

Question 3:
Out of 6 people, 3 voted B and 3 voted C. Thus everyone thinks that Walker should be affected, but we cannot agree on how. No winner. Seeing as both of the people who voted here said C, I'm going with that for the time being.

Question 4:
Out of 6 people, 3 voted for A and 3 voted for B. No winner. For this one, I'm going with A as that is the easiest to apply.

Question 5:
Out of 6 people, 4 voted A, 1 voted B, and 1 voted F. A wins.

Question 6:
Out of 6 people, 3 voted A, 1 voted B, 1 voted D, 1 voted F. A wins.

Thus, the voting has said that:
Models with Deathrolla cannot use Overrun;
all Deathrolla can affect Light artillery;
Super Heavy Deathrolla can affect Walker;
Super Heavy Deathrolla hit as often as Vehicle;
all Deathrolla equipped models are stopped by a model that survives the Deathrolla attack.

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Hi!

Looks good.

Primarch

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Hey I just read this and for the purpose of adding to your sample size (albeit by only one) I agree with all these results. I agree that a super heavy shouldn't get a bonus to hit. It might have a bigger roller, but it's gonna be slower giving the enemy more time to get out of the way.