Ronnie_Nielsen wrote:
I know its a bit of a necro but would like to ask here anyway.
Did you ever consider adding some serious bonuses to the few units with AA ability to actually allow them to function as anti aircraft? Something like AA gives +1 to hit aircrafts and inflicts a further -1 to save bonus when used against flying units.
I tried running the statistics on some of the fliers vs the AA units. For some armies a theoretical army consisting of only AA would loose to an equal points army of flyers (dident bother running every possible combination, but ran some). This is without adding the enormous bonus of the manuverability. This is simply comparing the armor and weapons of both and then using statistics.
There is a serious problem when it is impossible to effectively pick units to counter fliers (besides other fliers) when the units do not even counter the same point value of fliers. To be effective AA would need to be able to counter something like twice their value in aircrafts as they are severly limited outside their AA role (superheavy and titan hunter, but other units do that better). It strange that fliers are better at killing AA than AA is at killing fliers point for point?
If it helps I can easily show an example but I think the stats of some of the fliers are quite obvious better than AA point for point.
Hi!
There were several threads for a proposed revamping of the system. This one below will beused for NE6. Perhaps it will serve for you and Gold as well.
Default Flier System (Modified from base system #4)
1. Orders/Missions
Fliers may select one of 3 orders/missions:
Intercept - a flier formation on these orders may fly towards another flier flier formation and engage it in a dogfight. It may also interrupt another flier formations movement to engage it in a dogfight on this orders.
Ground Attack - a flier formation on these orders may engage ground targets within range of its weapons.
Aerial Insertion (Transport) - a flier formation on this order may embark/disembark troops and lend lend close air support.
Since they are 3 orders/missions you can use the same counters as ground troops (charge/intercept, ground attack/advance, aerial insertion/first fire).
2. Movement
Fliers have no movement stat. They may move as much as they need to to carry out their orders/mission.
However all movement is carried out in a straight line with ONE turn per move.
The sharpness of the turn depends on the flier type. There are only 3 types:
Interceptors: one 90 degree turn
Bomber: one 45 degree turn
Dropship: one 180 turn (can hover)
While distance is immaterial due to no move stat, facing is important, since for some fliers doubling back maybe difficult and would take 1 or more turns.
This would address the issue of some flier types having better maneuverability than others.
OPTION: If preferred we could use a maneuverability "ability" expressed as "Maneuver x" where 'x' is the amount of 45 degree turns a flier could make during a single move. This may be easier since it adopts the already well known abilities scheme used in Gold.
OPTION 2: Note there is no minimum move for fliers. If one is desired all aircraft that cannot hover must move at least 50cm.
OPTION 3: There is no high altitude or "nap of the earth" flying levels in the system, but if desired they can be easily accommodated as follows:
High altitude (default flier elevation): Direct fire weapon ranges to fire on the fliers are 25cm shorter (if the units range is 75cm, it is 50cm for this purpose). There are no other associated bonuses or penalties.
Low Altitude (NOE): May use terrain to block line of sight. All incoming fire may re-roll misses once and apply hits. The flier re-rolls all misses against ground targets.
3. Refueling/Rearming
No flier can be in the air indefinitely. Fuel, munitions or some unforeseen event may ground a formation. To simulate this we'll use the following game mechanic.
In the end phase each flier formation on the board rolls a d6. If the roll is less than the number of the current game turn, the flier needs to return to base for refitting.
Thus is it is the 3rd turn a roll of 1 or 2 forces the formation to land and refit. A roll of 3+ means it stays airborne and can execute missions.
This means that on the first turn all formations automatically pass the refueling test since the lowest you can roll is a 1.
Conversely a roll of 6 is always a success regardless of game turn.
A formation that needs to return and refit is grounded for a whole game turn (the next turn after the failed roll in the previous end phase).
Once the obligatory turn has passed the formation must roll a d6 and roll equal to or greater than the current game turn to return to play and execute orders.
This means the game turn number is used for both having to refit and to return to duty. Using the same number is easy to remember.
OPTION: If desired different armies can be given a bonus to this roll based on the armies tech level or other factors. Scenarios can also apply a penalty as well.
This covers the concern of formations leaving the table frequently and returning. Since it is very likely, once they are gone, it may be difficult to return.
4. Anti-aircraft
Formations with AA capability may fire at fliers without penalty. Such units may fire at EACH new formation that crosses its range radius.
Therefore if three different flier formations flier through its AA weapons radius it may fire one full volley at each formation as it passes through.
The radius is determined by the AA formations orders.
AA formations on first fire orders may not move but may fire at all new flier formations to the full extent of their weapons range (please note that range is reduced 25cm if optional high altitude rule is in play).
AA formations on advance orders may move and fire at all new flier formations with a 25cm range, regardless of actual weapon range (please note that if high altitude optional rule is in play this radius is NOT reduced).
This simplifies the base system quite a bit.
5. Combat resolution
Ground Attack
Formations on this order may move towards their targets and fire all their direct fire weapon at any point along their path (drop bombs, shoot, etc).
At any point of their path they may be intercepted or fired on by AA and any destroyed fliers are removed before they can execute the ground attack order. Survivors may continue their move and attacks.
Ground formations on first fire orders target of a ground attack are particularly vulnerable since they are not moving. Re-roll all misses once when attacking ground targets on first fire orders (this includes AA on first fire orders).
Also See Altitude options under movement.
Interception
Formations on this order may move from any point on the battlefield to engage another formation in a dogfight. Such interception may occur at any point of the intercepted formations move.
Please note that interceptors themselves may be intercepted and both sides may commit as many formations to intercept as are available (or willing). Once all committed interceptor formations are allocated a round of close combat is fought.
Note Dogfight combat can occur in any phase, not just the close combat phase, depending on the phase which the mission occurs.
Survivors of dogfight combat may continue their move if it was interrupted and execute their order/mission as normal.
Each flier formation may only be engaged once in dogfight combat per turn. Therefore players need to commit as many formations to the dogfight as they desire/have since survivors may continue after it is resolved (although they may still be shot by AA).
See morale rules below for further details once dogfight combat has ended.
Aerial Insertion
Formation with this order/mission may deploy assets to a selected target zone.
It may also embark troops with this order.
Troops may be deployed by landing or from the air if troops have movement that allows this (jump packs, etc).
The flier may remain around the DLZ while on these orders and fire direct fire weapons at ground targets within 25cm of the DLZ.
The flier is particularly vulnerable to ground fire while hovering or landing, so all incoming fire re-rolls misses once. (This not cumulative with optional altitude rules modifiers).
6. Morale
Flier formations that suffer casualties (loss of models) by any method (dogfights, AA or other direct fire weapons) must roll a morale check.
If the check is failed the mission is aborted and the formation returns as if it failed a refuel/rearm roll.
It doesn't get to execute its mission if this occurs. It receives the fallback order
However unlike failing a refuel/rearm roll the flier may be available next turn if it rallies in the end phase as per standard Gold rules.
Regardless of source of casualties flier formations are only forced to take a morale test ONCE per turn. Once such a test is passed it doesn't not forced to take any others for that turn.
Primarch
