While that is an interesting thought, it would make Platinum and Gold incompatible.

I'm fairly sure that Marines rarely failing a Morale check would be consistent with 40K, but cannot be certain as I'm not familiar with the current 40K rules. As most other forces have worse values, and costs are based around those values, it should all even out in the end.

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Hi!

Good point. Indeed marines failing morale in 40k is "infrequent".

Primarch

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I just had another thought about this topic. That paragraph will have to be amended to include a note that any formation with an odd number of elements has it's Break Point equal to half rounded up. In other words, if 5 elements, then BP = 3. If 15 then BP 8. And so on.

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I've gone and worked through all of the possible cost permutations for the elements available to a Tactical Company. This study also holds for the Assault, Devastator, Battle, & Scout Companies.

I calculated the 'base value' by working the presented stats through the tweaked formula and adding in the adjustment for Morale. Break Point was more complicated.

The minimum possible number of elements is 13 (three detachments of four stands (3*4=12) plus one HQ stand) and the maximum is 68 (five detachments of six stands (5*6=30) plus one HQ plus Apothecary, Chaplain, & Librarian plus 34 one slot Transports). Thus there are 56 (68-12=56) possible BP values for the basic troop and the HQ, and 55 for the add on stands and the Transports. In approximately half of these cases, the BP works out to 1/2 (IE 4/8, 12/24, 18/36, etc) and the rest are odder fractions (5/9, 13/25, etc). I've worked out the values for each and averaged them by the number of combinations. In all cases, the averaged value is ~1.5% higher than exactly half of the base value (1.5477% for the basic troop & HQ and 1.436% for add on stands & transports). My conclusion from this is that just using a value equal to half of the 'base value' mentioned above (as if BP was 1/2) should be a reasonable approximation for the "quick start" values. People who want more accuracy (though not much more) can use the 'formations' section of the Points Formula for themselves.

TL/DR: I've worked out how to put values to things in an easy way.

This means that the values listed for each model in the stats document will include everything up to Morale adjustment, but not include Break Point or Formation type adjustments. The values in the Formations document will, of course, include these adjustments, and a note to this effect should be made because otherwise the values will not seem to match. Perhaps a note at the beginning of the stats document along the lines of: "The Points value listed here is for the use of those players who desire to assemble their own formations of these troops, and thus do not include adjustments for Break Point or Formation type. See the Points Formula [in (document) on page #XXX] for more details."


One other thing I'd like to alter. In the beginning of the Formations document, you have the following paragraph: "Transports chosen for stands that have the HQ or Command special rules, automatically gain those rules as well and to help with their identification, are called “Command” Vehicles of the chosen type." This does not work, as the Command version of a vehicle is significantly more powerful and thus more expensive than the non-Command version. It cannot be a free upgrade. Perhaps: "Stands that have the HQ and/or Command abilities have the option to select Transports that have the Command & HQ abilities as well. These are referred to as "Command" vehicles of their respective type."

Obviously, the chart of "Transport Options" would have to be changed slightly by adding a column for "Cost of Command version". Something like:
Transport ________________ Stands ____ Normal __ Command _ Carry
_ Vehicle ________________ Carried ____ Cost ___ version _ Bulky?
Rhino _______________________ 2 ________ 16 _______ 28 ____ yes
Damocles ____________________ 1 ________ NA _______ 39 ____ no
Razorback ___________________ 1 ________ 17 _______ 30 ____ no
Razorback LC ________________ 1 ________ 19 _______ 33 ____ no
Razorback HB ________________ 1 ________ 16 _______ 29 ____ no
Razorback MM ________________ 1 ________ 18 _______ 31 ____ no
Razorback FL ________________ 1 ________ 16 _______ 28 ____ no
Razorback AC ________________ 1 ________ 18 _______ 31 ____ no
Land Raider _________________ 2 ________ 47 _______ 63 ____ yes
Land Raider Crusader ________ 3 ________ 51 _______ 65 ____ yes
Land Raider Redeemer ________ 2 ________ 75 ______ 102 ____ no
Land Raider Achilles ________ 1 ________ 80 ______ 116 ____ no
Land Raider Helios __________ 1 ________ 54 _______ 74 ____ no
Land Raider Prometheus ______ 2 ________ NA _______ 59 ____ no
Land Raider Proteus _________ 2 ________ 41 _______ 58 ____ yes
Spartan Assault Tank ________ 5 ________ 67 _______ 85 ____ yes
Landspeeder Storm ___________ 1 ________ 77 ______ 120 ____ no
Stormraven Gunship __________ 2

The above chart is only partly there as I don't have the remaining point values worked up just yet. I'll post stat document and Formations document values another time. It's getting a bit late here just now.

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Haven't had a chance to completely read through that costing post, but will get to it. Just want to answer some of the other questions first.

As long as we have the ability to define Transports Capacities from 1-6, I thing we should be good. A big part of what I am trying to do is make things as Canon as possible and I am sure there will be times when we need to bend the rules a bit, but I would only like to see that happening as a last resort.
Definitely keep the "Detachment" and "Company" transport capacities, as I am sure they will work on some vehicles. The Marine Drop Ship (the big one, not the Thunderhawk variant) might be better off just saying Transport Company as when you get to vehicles that size, whether you can squeeze a few more men in isn't really a big issue.

As Primarch said, I didn't fill in all the Morale values as there were discussions about possible changes and I don't think it was ever finalised.

With regards to the comment about walkers and transports, that is another element that was done away with long ago. In the marine list, the only vehicles that can carry Dreadnoughts are Drop Pods, the Storm Raven (using external grappling hooks rather than being in the hold) and the Thunderhawk (plus the other larger fliers). Others I haven't checked yet, but I suspect it is something that is repeated across all the army lists. Dreadnoughts just can't physically fit in Rhinos and Land Raiders. If most transports can't carry walkers, does that simplify any of the cost formulas?

Regarding Squiggles comments about Eldar Support Weapons. They have two types available, smaller ones which accompany guardian squads and larger independent ones. In epic much like Tactical squads don't get any recognition for their heavy and special weapons, the smaller guardian weapon platform is just ignored in a guardian squad. The larger ones are the support weapon platforms that are already in use and will be updated with their newer weapons.

Will try and update the documents this week/next week with the various comments and then we should be a step closer to a final product.

Matt

Think I need a few more read throughs to fully understand the costing post, but on some of the other points.
Rhinos can not carry bulky.
Rredeemer and Prometheus can carry bulky.
In the basic marine list the Land Speeder Storm can't be a command model as the HQ stand shouldn't be able to take it, only the scouts can take them (apologies if I didn't indicate that in the army list).

Hi!

Gentlemen, since you three (Mattman, Magnus and SquiggleAmp), know what you need to do in reference to these NEP lists, is there anything I can do or provide to help any of you out?

Primarch

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@Mattman:
Good catch, the Redeemer and Prometheus should be yes for Bulky. Typo on my end there. Why can the Rhino not carry a Bulky stand? It has a capacity of two normal stands, so it should be able to carry one Bulky stand instead.

On that note, is just saying "yes" enough, or should that column show exactly how many Bulky stands may be carried?

So most Transports do not carry Walker in the modern rules? No worry, that's why it is an option. While removing it from most vehicles won't simplify the formula as such (as it should remain an option for people building their own models' stats), it will make many baseline models a bit less expensive.

As to the LS Storm not being available in a Command version, why not? Especially since we could easily make a Scout HQ squad to go with the Company. I've already worked up the stats in my spreadsheet and have a cost for it. Even if it is not the base HQ for the Company, it could be an available upgrade.

@Primarch:
I cannot think of anything specifically at the moment, but if I do, I'll mention it. Thanks. However, do weigh in on the next points please.

@Everyone:
In putting together the points values so far for Platinum, I've had a thought, which led to questions.

For the values listed in the stats document, I'm planning on putting in (mostly) UN-rounded values to either one or two decimal places. The values there are for those players who want to assemble their own Formations from scratch without using Mattman's Formations document.

For the Formations document, at first I was planning on rounding all values to the nearest multiple of 5, but then I realized that the formation is not done being assembled at that point. What I would prefer to do is to have the values in the Formations document be rounded to the nearest whole number (IE no decimal places), and have an instruction for the player to round off the value for the final formation to the nearest multiple of 5. Or not.

To be clearer about the questions I am asking:
A. Do people think that just rounding the values for the elements to whole numbers is sufficient OR should they be rounded to a multiple of 5 at this point? The former allows for more granularity, while the latter may be easier to add up without a calculator.
B. Is it reasonable to round off the final value for the Formation to a multiple of 5 (assuming not doing so before) or shall we just leave the final formation cost as whatever number it winds up being?

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Hi!



While I am on board with Mattman's philosophy of "modernization", where feasible and possible the option for rhinos to carry "bulky" troops should be there. After all we want players old and new to play NEP.



I for one would like to escape the GW conceit of rounding off to the nearest multiple of 5 (5, 10, etc).

I would prefer rounding to the nearest whole number. I realize that adding multiples of five is easier, but if the formations and the organization is done right, then adding these is not an onerous endeavor.

Primarch

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I have always thought that they would be incompatible given that we are changing the rules for fliers, titans, barrage weapons, army lists, stats and other things. Yes the basic game will have similarities, but I saw Platinum as a big step change. If one person has an army built using the rules and for use with Platinum, and another had an army built using the rules and for use with Gold, they wouldn't be able to play unless one of them tweaked their list for the opposing rules set.



But as I have stated many times on many posts, this is not a modern thing. Transports have not been able to carry bulky troops like terminators and jump pack for over 15 years, circa 2nd/3rd ed 40k. This aspect of the cannon has been relevant in the 40k universe longer than it hasn't. It is the reason I have added non jump pack marines, so that players can still put assault marines in transports, but they forgo the jump pack ability and why I have increased the move speed of jump pack assault marines so they can be fielded without the need for rhinos.

Like wise with the walkers being carried in transports. It was part way through 2nd ed when they printed the Dark Millennium expansion that they removed the transport capability of most vehicles being able to carry walkers.

I appreciate that we want to try and please new and old players and I have been trying to do that with these rules, but with bringing these rules up to date, I am always going to go with the making sure the canon of the 40k universe is as correct as possible first.
If someone wants to bring the Gold Marine army list into Platinum (with the points undated of course) as it currently stands with assault marines, dreadnoughts and terminators getting in rhinos, then by all means do that and we will have two army lists for people to choose from.



The captain of the Scout company and his command squad are not scouts, they are fully converted and trained space marines and are equipped like normal marines with power armour rather than the lighter scout armour, so can not technically fit on a Storm. But an option to replace the captain with a scout version of himself is an interesting thought, will think about that one.

With regards to points values, I would like to see how things progress just by using whole numbers rather than rounding to 5. If for some reason it doesn't work, then we can move over to 5s.

Carrying on the points values system train of thought, something has been bugging me and I have tried to raise it a couple of times and didn't really get anywhere, so here it goes again.
Do we really need to use a system which after totalling up the points values of a formation we have to apply a number of multipliers based on BP and whether it is a company or not, is there not some way we can incorporate those aspects or part of a value for them into the basic single model cost.
Given that all the armies will be using this points calculator to determine the single model cost, surely removing it will have no affect as all armies will no longer be using it?
Basically when I started looking at updating the army lists and making the flexible formations, I had a vision that a player would select a formation, choose the various options, add all the costs together and its done (barring working out the BP and VPs in the normal manner), the player wouldn't have to apply any additional multiplication or percentages to work out any costs. For example, using my Tactical Company formation (the numbers I have assigned are purely pulled out of thin air to demonstrate my thinking and are in no way accurate or a product of the costing formula. I also trimmed down the transport options and gave them some costs to):



So if I wanted to include a Tactical Company in my army, I would look at the entry and decide what I want in it.
So maybe I decide my Tactical Company is going to consist of 2 6 stand detachments and 2 4 stand detachments. The 6 stand detachments will just be mounted in Rhinos and each of the 4 stand detachments will be mounted in Razorback LCs and Razorback FLs respectively. My HQ stand will also be mounted in a Razorback AC, and I would like to include a Librarian who is mounted in a Rhino.
So I work out the points.
Basic cost is 520pts for HQ plus 3 detachments of 4.
Increase the size of 2 detachments by 2 stands each, 40pts per stand, 160pts.
Add an additional detachment, 160pts.
6 Rhinos, 180pts.
4 RB LC, 120pts.
4 RB FL, 80pts.
1 RB AC, 30pts.
1 Librarian, 35pts.
1 Rhino, 30pts.

That gives us a grand total of 1315pts. 38 models, Break Point is 19, VPs are 14. That it is, done and dusted, no further maths required, move on to the next formation.

We all know that companies have a cost reduction for their models compared to support formations, so why not build that into the per stand cost right from the beginning. Maybe a Tactical Detachment chosen as a support formation has the following costs compared to what you pay in a company formation (again, values have been plucked out of the air to illustrate my point):



So everything at the support level is slightly more expensive than if bought as part of a company.

Have I completely made a fool of myself and explained the way we were planning on doing it all along, or was I right when I said using the cost formula as is, we expect people to then do some multiplication after totalling the cost of the formation? If that is the case, then I think we will be putting people off from using the flexible formation system.

Here's another random thought about points, why bother working out the VPs of the formation as a 100th of the total cost of the formation (and then rounding), why not have the VPs equal the formation cost? And rather than play the games to 30 or 45 VPs etc, play the games to 3000 or 4500 VPs instead, with objectives worth 500 VPs? It would fit in with the granularity of using whole numbers?

Wow, didn't realise that was quite a wall of text

Matt

Well, Gold already has two sets of rules for Fliers which are rather confusing anyway, so what's one more... Seriously though, I have not yet seen any proposed changes to the rules of the game itself (with the possible exception of the aforementioned Flier rules) that would render the two incompatible. All of the others are just changes to stats or formations for models and things that can be expressed via the Points Formula. At least, I don't recall any major changes offhand. Thus a Gold army should be compatible with a Platinum one so long as the Gold army was purchased via the Points Formula values.


I'm sorry, but it IS a "modern" thing. NetEpic Gold is based off of the 2nd edition Space Marine / Titan Legions rule set, which is primarily based off of 2nd edition Warhammer 40K, with bits of 1st here and there (Squats, Chaos, etc). Thus ANYTHING that is more recent than 2nd edition W40K IS "modern" (notice the quotes) compared to NetEpic's rule set and the expectations of most of it's players. [Yes, I know I'm making a huge assumption there, but if I'm wrong, I'm sure people will say so.] If not most then at least many as if we were not largely interested in the nostalgic feel of this game, we'd be playing NetEpicArmageddon (or whatever its called) instead.

Also, another thing to note is that this game is NOT W40K. It is based off of that game, sure, and shares many elements, yes, but it is a different game with different needs and different rules. Please do not try to recreate Epic 40K, as that was without doubt the least well received version of Epic ever released. Epic is about massive armies facing off against each other. It is not about recreating 40K armies in exacting detail, and should not be as then we move closer to GW shutting the whole thing down for being too similar to their game.

That said, the question of whether or not a Rhino can carry Bulky is academic. They can. This is because, as far as I am aware, the entire definition of Bulky could be stated as: "This stand takes up two slots in a Transport." Thus, any model that has a Transport capacity of two (2) or higher can carry (at least) one Bulky stand (one Bulky per each full two normal slots). If you want to say that the Platinum-era Rhino cannot carry Walker class models, that is fine, but there is no logical way that you can say that it cannot carry Bulky.


Yes and no. To elaborate:

Having solid values for the Formations document is what I am aiming for as well. In thinking about it, and as was discussed above, the Formations provided with Platinum should be simple and require no mathematics harder than adding up whole numbers, and the minor divisions required to determine BP & VP. Players who want more can always build their own models and/or Formations using the Formula.

Doing the Formation adjustments "separately" from the model costs is really only intended for those people making their own models and/or formations from scratch. The Formation adjustments really are not a separate system anyway, just the "second half" so to speak, as a model without a Formation is useless.

There is no mathematical reason that the Formation Type (Company or Special), Morale, and Chain-of-Command modifiers cannot be applied prior to the finalization of the Formation. No accuracy is lost by doing so. Break Point however, cannot be applied prior to knowing the final total Formation size without sacrificing accuracy, or (as Primarch suggested about a page back) by listing costs for every possible Formation size for every element. Although, as I noted above in relation to your Tactical Company Formation, a reasonably close approximation can be made. The difference would likely only be by a couple of points here and there. [Example to follow in later post.]

There has been some discussion about the best way to proceed on this, so you have not "made a fool of yourself" at all. People using the Formula will have to do all of the multiplications for themselves (though I am toying with the thought of trying to make a spreadsheet that would do most of the work for a person). People using the supplied Formations should not have to do any multiplication.


That is an interesting idea. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I'll have to let that stew for a while.

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I don't think it is academic, we are adding a rule that Rhinos can not carry Walkers, so we can just as well add a rule that they can not carry Bulky, seems logical to me.

Why is it so wrong that I want to create an army list that replicates marines (and other armies) as they are portrayed today? 2nd Ed Space Marine was my favourite game and NetEpic has done a great job of making it better, but I am a bigger fan of the current 40k universe, retcons and all and what we see in those armies, than what we had 20 years ago. So for me I want to play modern era marines in games of epic and if that means lots of special rules, then so be it, that is part of what made 2nd ed good compared to 40k and Armageddon.
As I said previously, if nostalgia is that important to people, then port the gold list into platinum and update the points to fit. People can then choose to play the classic version or my modern version.

And with regards to GW shutting down the project, we are so far down the rabbit hole anyway that they could have done it long time ago, we use all their names anyway, adding more is just here nor there. And it doesn't just apply here, all the other specialist games are being maintained by groups of fans so if they came down on one, they would have to come down on all of them.

Glad to see that I sort of know where things are going with regards to the pointing system

Matt

It is not so much that you are adding a rule stating that Rhino cannot carry Walker as that you are changing the base-level rules for Transports to state that as default they do not carry Walker. Which, in a way, I've done as well by making it an option with it's own cost in the Transport rules. Thus that is not something that applies specifically to the Rhino.

However, saying that the Rhino could not carry Bulky troops even though it is a Vehicle class model and Vehicle class models can, as default, carry Bulky is specifically and directly affecting it. You also do not seem to have considered another point. If the Rhino cannot carry a Bulky stand, then by extension it cannot carry a Support Weapon. If I recall correctly, the plan was to add the Bulky ability to Support Weapons to make each take up two slots so that one Vehicle could not then tow two Thudd Guns. To fix this there would have to be yet another Ability added to the Rhino that negates that specific portion of the other Ability that prohibits Bulky, and this is where it gets needlessly complicated.

Is my interpretation of the Bulky ability wrong in any way? I'm (mostly) just trying to keep things consistent here, and the Rhino not being able to carry Bulky seems very inconsistent and needless. I will admit that part of this is my inherent resistance to change, especially needless and illogical change as this seems like to me. Still, if someone doesn't like your version of the Rhino, they can either design their own using the Points Formula or bring in an army from the Gold lists. Seeing as there are other options, if you absolutely have to have that Platinum Rhino cannot carry Bulky, then go for it. However, a couple of thoughts for working this out in what I consider a more logical manner.

Is this specifically about keeping Jump equipped troops out of Transports? If so, it could just be easier to add a bit into the rules for the Jump ability that says something like: "Troops equipped in this way are not allowed to use any Transport with a capacity of less than 1 Detachment. Only vehicles with this rating or higher have enough space to hold them." If that was added, then troops with Jump would not need the Bulky ability at all.

If that doesn't work for you, I suppose we could add a factor into the Transport formula that determines whether or not a particular model can carry Bulky. The default should be that any model that can carry 2 or more stands can carry half (rounded down) as many Bulky stands. Not being able to carry Bulky would probably save 1 point off of the base value for Transport. This would eliminate the need to add an ability specifically to the Rhino, and would allow greater flexibility for creating new models.

-------------

Actually, I had a thought about the 'weight' of the various Infantry stands in Epic. It seems really silly to me that an Imperial Guardsman should take up the same space in a Transport that a Space Marine does. If I recall correctly, isn't a Marine supposed to be about 8 to 9 feet tall even without their armor on? With their armor and gear, a Marine should easily take up the space of at least two Guardsmen. With that thought in mind, we could reclassify Infantry (at least) into three sub-types. Light, Medium, and Heavy.

Light would consist of Guardsmen, Cultists, Gretchin, basic Tau, and any other reasonably human sized, or smaller, troops with light to no armor. Ork Boys could be included in Light despite being physically larger as they really don't mind being squished together in a Transport. Marine Scouts could be placed here.

Medium would consist of Marines, Sisters, and other troops wearing powered armor of various sorts. Ork Nobz could fit in here reasonably well, as they do wear some armor, but being Orks don't mind getting a bit squished. Guardsmen with Jump should probably be Medium, assuming Jump's definition is not redefined as above.

Heavy would be Terminators, Marines with Jump, Ork Warboss/Warlord, Wraithguard, Troll, Minotaur, and other models that while Infantry are very, very large and/or bulky. Basically anything that would have fallen under the Bulky ability.

Medium would act as 1 stand for Transport purposes. Heavy would be carried at half that rate and Light would be double. Thus a model with Transport 2 could carry 4 Light or 2 Medium or 1 Heavy.

If this were done, then the Landspeeder Storm could be defined as carrying 1 Light Infantry, and thus it would be obvious that it cannot carry heavier troops. As the Storm is currently defined (for Platinum), it can carry a normal Marine stand.

These subtypes would mainly be for use with Transport, but could have other applications. For example, Heavy Infantry could consider Buildings as Difficult Terrain as they would have to either bash their way through openings too small for them or slow down to move through them.

Yes, I know I'm diverging from even what 40K covers with this. Do people think it could help make the game better, or would this be a "needless complication"?

Theoretically, Vehicles could also have these applied. For example, we could say that Light Vehicles cannot carry Bulky Infantry. If the Rhino (and all Vehicles using that chassis) was then classified as Light, it would solve that issue in a logical and consistent manner. Land Raiders would probably be Medium, with Thunderhawk variants being Heavy. Medium vehicles would treat Bulky as normal (IE 1 Bulky per 2 slots), and Heavy could possibly treat Bulky as a normal stand. Maximum Transport slots could be: Light 2, Medium 4, Heavy 6. Thus the Mole would be a Heavy Vehicle, while the Termite would probably be Medium.

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It isn't just about jump troops, it is about keeping large infantry out of any sort of vehicle that they can't be carried in.
This is not something that is specific to a Rhino or marines (and by extension any army that uses Rhinos, so Guard, Sisters, Chaos). The Falcon in the Eldar army and the Devilfish in the Tau army both also have the caveat of not being able to carry Bulky troops and both armies have plenty of choices for infantry (jump pack, jet pack and heavy infantry) which fall under the Bulky heading. So these issues are relevant across several armies.

With regards to the Support Weapons, applying the bulky rule was just a thought (maybe not a good one) as I mentioned to stop them being carried by things which couldn't carry Bulky models, they have not been able to be carried by certain transports for some time. In most cases I see support weapons being dropped into location by a pod or a thunderhawk (or the equivalent in other armies).



I was thinking that maybe we need to take the transport rules back a few steps and consider what is the base line for transporting troops. If we say that the base line of the Transport ability is the capability to carry one stand of non-bulky infantry (the smallest carriable item) and then work up from that in the pointing system. So:
Transport 1 (non-bulky infantry) x pts
Carry an additional stand (non-bulky infantry) +x pts
Can carry Bulky Infantry multiply by x
Can carry Support Weapons multiply by x
Can carry Cavalry multiply by x
etc etc.

The description in the special rule could then be something like Transport[I] x for something that can only carry basic infantry, Transport[I/BI] x, for something that can carry basic and bulky infantry, Transport[I/SW] x for something that can carry basic infantry and support weapons etc etc.

I think you mentioned something like this in a previous post, but if we just take a step further back with the baseline it could help sort this issue out.



I think that would end up getting a bit complicated and then you get yourself into the opposite situation in that now Imperial Guard Chimeras can now carry 4 stands or 20 men.


Interesting thought, could work, though in all cases, even if the vehicle is heavy, bulky troops still take up twice the space, you can't get more than 15 of them in a thunderhawk :/

Matt

Sorry, I've been really busy the last few days.

Something I noticed as I was going through the Tau book was that it specified that most of their Transports ARE able to carry their Walker class models (or more specifically, their Battlesuits) and the way it was phrased made it seem like this was an odd thing. Which it isn't in 2nd or NetEpic. (This may have been a strong motivator for me to make an option for "carries Walker".) This reference makes more sense if the source material (IE fairly recent 40K) does not generally allow Walkers in Transports.

Revising Transport. That could be a good idea. So we are back to the first version of Transport then, flat cost per stand and modified by various things. Right, I'll have to poke at that a bit, juggle some numbers, and see what I can get to work. It may be a while though, I'm not going to have a lot of spare time for about a month or so here.

I'm guessing that your sample modifiers list was just for example. I'm asking, as I am not aware of any model that can specifically carry Cavalry models, aside from things that can carry a Company formation.

Actually, no, the Chimera would not be carrying 4 stands if IG were considered Light. It's Transport would be less expensive than that of a Rhino, as the Chimera is only carrying 2 Light stands or 1 Medium compared to the Rhino being able to carry 4 Light or 2 Medium stands.

Yes, it would be a bit more complicated, but then so are your new formations. It would also add more customization options, and could eliminate the need to purchase access to Support Weapons or Bulky if all of those were given a 'weight' rating. For example, the Mole Mortar could be classified as Light for Guard or Squat (but medium for Marines) whereas the Thudd Gun could be rated as Heavy. In fact, we could entirely eliminate the Support Weapon category and fold them into Infantry as they are generally the same. I suppose a few might need to be put into Walker instead, probably the Thudd Gun and Thunderfire.

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