Tactical Command
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Barrage, buildings and units inside
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=28160		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Nedius [ Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Barrage, buildings and units inside
Hi,

Got a rule query.

When a unit of infantry is inside a building, and the building is hit by a barrage weapon, what happens?

Does the barrage just hit the building? And therefore infantry are unaffected unless the building collapses?

Or, does it hit the building AND any infantry stands under the template?

thanks!
Author:  primarch [ Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Barrage, buildings and units inside
Nedius wrote:
Hi,

Got a rule query.

When a unit of infantry is inside a building, and the building is hit by a barrage weapon, what happens?

Does the barrage just hit the building? And therefore infantry are unaffected unless the building collapses?

Or, does it hit the building AND any infantry stands under the template?

thanks!


Hi!

When the shot is called you need to state whether your going after the structure (building) or the units within.

In other words you don't hit both, but one or the other.

Hit the building is easier, but harder to damage (plus it has structural points, so it doesn't necessarily collapse with one failed save), hitting the infantry incurs in to hit penalties, but can kill the infantry within without necessarily affecting the overall structure.

tactically speaking, weapons that ignore cover, say a hellhound flamer weapon, are better used against the infantry within, while bombards (that destroy buildings outright) are better used against the structure itself.

Hope that answers your question. Feel free to ask more questions if you'd like. :)

Primarch
Author:  The Bissler [ Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Barrage, buildings and units inside
Sorry Primarch, a Net Epic Gold disagrees with you! :)

Page 29: template weapons automatically hit buildings and you first roll to see if the building falls down. If it doesn't, roll to hit all units underneath the template with the appropriate to hit modifier.

Oh, and welcome to the community Nedius! :)
Author:  MagnusIlluminus [ Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Barrage, buildings and units inside
Primarch must be thinking back to Epic 2nd edition rules, or his own house rules, again. Good catch Bissler.
Author:  primarch [ Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Barrage, buildings and units inside
The Bissler wrote:
Sorry Primarch, a Net Epic Gold disagrees with you! :)

Page 29: template weapons automatically hit buildings and you first roll to see if the building falls down. If it doesn't, roll to hit all units underneath the template with the appropriate to hit modifier.


Hi!

LOL! I stand corrected! ;D

Primarch
Author:  primarch [ Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Barrage, buildings and units inside
MagnusIlluminus wrote:
Primarch must be thinking back to Epic 2nd edition rules, or his own house rules, again. Good catch Bissler.


Hi!

I really outta read first before answering questions. :P

Primarch
Author:  The Bissler [ Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Barrage, buildings and units inside
Kind of related...I'm a fan of the ball round for the Ork Gutbuster. I can't find anything that explains what happens if the ball round hits a building. Does the building have to make a save or no effect?

If there is a save and it fails (destroying the building) does the ball keep going?
Author:  primarch [ Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Barrage, buildings and units inside
The Bissler wrote:
Kind of related...I'm a fan of the ball round for the Ork Gutbuster. I can't find anything that explains what happens if the ball round hits a building. Does the building have to make a save or no effect?

If there is a save and it fails (destroying the building) does the ball keep going?


The ball is a template (although small), so the building makes a save (-4, it says anything under the template), the ball continues to roll for the full amount that was rolled on 4d6. It doesn't "destroy buildings" as an ability, so presumably the building can survive. You can hit several buildings if you are lucky and roll enough movement.

It's really good in city fights. :)

Primarch
Author:  The Bissler [ Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Barrage, buildings and units inside
Yep, it's because there is nothing in the rules about it damaging or destroying buildings that I was confused about it. (Destroys buildings still get a save, it's just that if it fails the building comes down straight away). Should this maybe be added for any update in the Ork book?

@Nedius: I should have mentioned that only weapons which say "Damages Buildings" or "Destroys Buildings" will have any chance of bringing the buildings down. There aren't many of these, so on the while it'll be troops that you'll be hitting in the buildings. Remember also that they'll get a -2 to be hit from the barrage as they get that cover save!
Author:  Nedius [ Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Barrage, buildings and units inside
Thanks for the welcome, and for answering the question!

Thanks for the page ref too. Just couldn't seem to find it; looked-for-rule-blindness, I guess!

So, a template will hit both the building and troops under it. However, troops get the -2 to hit on the hit roll, and the building will only be damaged if the template werapon has the damage or destroy building rules? That about right?
Author:  The Bissler [ Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Barrage, buildings and units inside
That's spot on bud!

Don't worry about missing things in the book - I do it all the time! Don't hesitate to ask if there's anything else you can't find or are unsure of, between us we'll get an answer! :D
Author:  Irisado [ Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Barrage, buildings and units inside
Note that this rule was the same in second edition. It was clarified by Mark Watts (remember him!) in one of the White Dwarf FAQs for SM2. Barrage templates hit both the building and the infantry covered by the template, but you rolled to see if the building collapsed first, and then worked out damage to the infantry if it did not.
Author:  primarch [ Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Barrage, buildings and units inside
Irisado wrote:
Note that this rule was the same in second edition. It was clarified by Mark Watts (remember him!) in one of the White Dwarf FAQs for SM2. Barrage templates hit both the building and the infantry covered by the template, but you rolled to see if the building collapsed first, and then worked out damage to the infantry if it did not.


Hi!

I indeed do remember Mr. Watts.

He was the only GW employee, Jervis included that knew the rules well and had a good grasp of its tactics.

His articles on tactical advice and his one battle report (in which he totally annihilated his opponent), are a few of the really excellent articles/report made for epic in its golden age.

Primarch
Author:  Irisado [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Barrage, buildings and units inside
He was featured in two WD Battle Reports Primarch ;). Assault on Barbarius Prime (he commanded the Imperial Guard and crushed an Eldar force thanks to great tactics and poor army selection and tactics by Richard Helliwell who was an inexperienced Eldar player), and earlier on Chaos at Kadavah (where he commanded Chaos against Helliwell's Marines in a very bloody draw).
Author:  primarch [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Barrage, buildings and units inside
Irisado wrote:
He was featured in two WD Battle Reports Primarch ;). Assault on Barbarius Prime (he commanded the Imperial Guard and crushed an Eldar force thanks to great tactics and poor army selection and tactics by Richard Helliwell who was an inexperienced Eldar player), and earlier on Chaos at Kadavah (where he commanded Chaos against Helliwell's Marines in a very bloody draw).


Hi!

Ah, yes forgot that one. It was a good played draw. :)

Primarch
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