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Renegade Mek Boyz Mob

 Post subject: Renegade Mek Boyz Mob
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:19 am 
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Hi,

I took a mob of Renegade Mek Boyz vehicles (special card) recently and I was concerned that I may have been breaking the rules; can the mob operate independently without any Nobz being in attendance?

I read and reread the rules but wasn't clear about this. My best guess is that they can work as a mob that have to be obey the usual 6cm coherency rule with each other but don't need Nobz. I'd rather be sure about this before using them again though!

:sos

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 Post subject: Re: Renegade Mek Boyz Mob
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:09 pm 
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The Bissler wrote:
Hi,

I took a mob of Renegade Mek Boyz vehicles (special card) recently and I was concerned that I may have been breaking the rules; can the mob operate independently without any Nobz being in attendance?

I read and reread the rules but wasn't clear about this. My best guess is that they can work as a mob that have to be obey the usual 6cm coherency rule with each other but don't need Nobz. I'd rather be sure about this before using them again though!

:sos


Hi!

As far as I know they are an independent formation.

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 Post subject: Re: Renegade Mek Boyz Mob
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:19 am 
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Cheers Primarch, that's as I thought. I just thought it was peculiar that they could act as an independent mob when the single Mekboyz vehicles bought with Clans are subject to the Ork command rule. But I'm happy with this!

Cheers!

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 Post subject: Re: Renegade Mek Boyz Mob
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:23 pm 
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Even if they aren't Independent as such, it shouldn't be too difficult to buy a formation of Nobz Warbikes to accompany the Renegade Mekboyz.

I'd be inclined to think that they do require some form of Nobz presence, as Renegade Mekboyz has an entry (shared with Evil Sunz) on the "Natural Instinct" chart on page 6 of the Ork pdf. Also see page 14, bottom of the left column where it says: "Mekboy vehicles purchased as part of the Renegade Mekboys special card form one Mob. They are subject to the Ork Command Rule." So that pretty much settles that. Sorry to burst your bubble.

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 Post subject: Re: Renegade Mek Boyz Mob
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:06 pm 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
Even if they aren't Independent as such, it shouldn't be too difficult to buy a formation of Nobz Warbikes to accompany the Renegade Mekboyz.

I'd be inclined to think that they do require some form of Nobz presence, as Renegade Mekboyz has an entry (shared with Evil Sunz) on the "Natural Instinct" chart on page 6 of the Ork pdf. Also see page 14, bottom of the left column where it says: "Mekboy vehicles purchased as part of the Renegade Mekboys special card form one Mob. They are subject to the Ork Command Rule." So that pretty much settles that. Sorry to burst your bubble.


Hi!

Another thing to change for Platinum. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Renegade Mek Boyz Mob
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:08 pm 
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...in which case they should come with Nobz war bikes. They are otherwise tied to clans which on the whole are without transports. It's bonkers to attach Renegade Mekboyz to such formations and I don't think that would have been the original intention of this special card.

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 Post subject: Re: Renegade Mek Boyz Mob
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:30 pm 
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The Bissler wrote:
...in which case they should come with Nobz war bikes. They are otherwise tied to clans which on the whole are without transports. It's bonkers to attach Renegade Mekboyz to such formations and I don't think that would have been the original intention of this special card.


Hi!

There are two solutions. Either it becomes independent or a formation of nobz is added.

Under Platinum, with the formulas either solution will be correctly priced.

Under gold, which is easier?

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 Post subject: Re: Renegade Mek Boyz Mob
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:35 pm 
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I'd say independent would be easier, it means no dicking around with points costs or formations is required.

Of course, that may in turn burst Magnus' bubble! ;D ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Renegade Mek Boyz Mob
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:02 pm 
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The Bissler wrote:
I'd say independent would be easier, it means no dicking around with points costs or formations is required.

Of course, that may in turn burst Magnus' bubble! ;D ;)


Hi!

LOL! ;D

For Gold that may be the better solution and perhaps for platinum as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Renegade Mek Boyz Mob
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:13 pm 
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Fluff wise you could make something up like "because the Renegade Mekboyz are such renegades they are capable of using their own initiative and do not require Nobz formations to be in attendance."

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 Post subject: Re: Renegade Mek Boyz Mob
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:27 pm 
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The Bissler wrote:
Fluff wise you could make something up like "because the Renegade Mekboyz are such renegades they are capable of using their own initiative and do not require Nobz formations to be in attendance."


Hi!

Mekboyz are "character" type units. It's not unreasonable they be independent as similar units in all other lists.

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 Post subject: Re: Renegade Mek Boyz Mob
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:57 am 
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The third solution is easiest: do nothing as there is no problem. Let me explain.

First, they are a Special Formation, so saying that they should be bound to another Clan Formation is reasonable at least in that way. It is another example of how a player has to plan ahead when building their army. Any Clan other than Evil Sunz or Kult of Speed would just about have to take a support formation of Nobz Warbikes if it has the Renegade Mekboyz formation attached IF they plan on having them move rapidly across the battlefield. Not doing so is poor planning, and should be "punished". Making them Independent will remove that responsibility to plan ahead.

[It would be similar to, with Space Marines, taking a Land Raider Company and an Apothecary Special, then complaining during the battle that the Apothecary was broken because it cannot repair a Vehicle.]

Note that the RM do not have to move rapidly across the battlefield. I could easily see a Bad Moon Clan with a RM special just sit tight and shoot at anything that moves while being covered by a couple of Dragsta fields, or a Goff Clan (with Infantry on Charge) move across the battlefield under the cover of a few such fields. In other words, they have more uses than just rushing around the battlefield.

The above show why I think that adding Independent is not necessary, and would even be a bad idea.

[If it is added, their cost in the Points Formula will change a bit. Not sure how much offhand. I'll have to check that.]

If the Renegade Mekboyz formation came with it's own Nobz Warbikes, that would send the message that their only use is in rushing around. In my view, each player should have the freedom, as they currently have, of choosing how to use them. Thus adding Nobz Warbikes to the existing formation would be a bad idea.

Also, adding Nobz Warbikes would definitely call for a cost increase, as they are powerful in their own right.

On the other hand, creating a new Clan formation based, perhaps loosely, on the Renegade Mekboyz formation could be a good idea. This would have two mobz, one of Nobz Warbikes, and one of Mekboy vehicles. The downside to this would be one more Clan that people would have to take before being able to duplicate Clans. Unless it was considered a minor Clan, as the Wildboyz Horde or Mega-Gargant are, which would create it's own complications.

There already is a 'character' formation called "Mekboy" that is an HQ unit. It is essentially the "Techmarine" of the Orks. While other formations may be of the Mekboy type, that doesn't necessarily mean that they have actual Mekboyz crewing the vehicles or firing the weapons, just that they were made by such. Even if they do, they would generally be lesser Mekboyz, not skilled / mad enough to make their own Gargant. [Note that this is just my view, and may or may not reflect actual fluff.]

I would counter that the Renegade Mekboyz formation has no equivalent in any other army and thus trying to say it should be like "similar units in other lists" is incorrect as there are none. Do also take into account that everything available within the Renegade Mekboyz formation is also available as a Support formation. Adding Independent to the models available for the Special formation would affect the Support ones as well. While there are several Mekboy Support formations that are already Independent, not all of them are.

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 Post subject: Re: Renegade Mek Boyz Mob
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:55 am 
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Hi!

Problem is, having play a lot of orks is that once you put such a restriction on the mekboyz special card, it ceases to be worth taking. Special card slot are few in a standard game. While it is true not all special cards need be independent, this one at least needs to. The background and its role as a "fast attack" formation really needs it.

Mind you, I'm leaving it as is in gold. I'll let players players use it as written or not. My opinions on this is more for Platinum.

While the points formula a newer formation scheme are in themselves the hallmarks of Platinum, I suspect there will be a fair amount of discussion on certain units (like this one) which will need their role better defined. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Renegade Mek Boyz Mob
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:09 am 
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That's funny, as I'm not the one putting that "restriction" on it. GW (with Epic 2nd) and Net Epic Gold are.

Ceases to be worth taking. You have to be kidding. How is it that difficult to plan ahead and also select a Support formation of Nobz Warbikes? If their Clan is Kult of Speed, you don't even have to do that, as you already have them.

Oh, gotcha. I thought the point Bissler was making was to change it in Gold. No biggie then, as lots of things are changing for Platinum.

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 Post subject: Re: Renegade Mek Boyz Mob
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:13 am 
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My personal opinion is that the RM should be independent. While it is fair to say they can still be very effective as part of a Mob, to be tied to such seems to waste their gadgets which help give them extra speed. My feeling is that is should operate more like the Kult of Speed but if people want it to linger at the back of the board then they are still free to do so.

I'm not pushing for this to be changed for Gold, it's more a case that I'm interested to see what the majority of people think so I am not abusing the rules against my opponent.

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