Tactical Command
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Epic Space Marine, hooked again
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=25574		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  SoEgern [ Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic Space Marine, hooked again
Hi everyone!

Discovered this forum by chance some days ago, and I just want to say that this has really brought back some good memories :) . It has been 15+ years since I last had a go at the table, but I will definitely try to arrange a battle or two soon.

While reading through the NetEpic rules and the revised army lists, I found a lot of small rule/unit changes which makes very good sense to me. Especially initiative/movement looks like a very nice improvement. A lot of our games back then were won or lost with the initiative roll in the first two rounds.

The reasons behind many of the changes from Epic Space Marine to NetEpic are obvious to me, but others are not so obvious. So I was wondering if it is possible to find the background for the changes, a discussion thread or something. (Example: The change in price for Eldar Revenant Scout Titans. I remember them as very good value for money with the old price tag, and I would like to understand why it was changed.)

I have browsed around a bit and found threads about single units, but can’t find any threads regarding “background for changes”. I would appreciate some help if possible :)


Man, do I want a game of Epic Space Marine right now. Went down to the basement two days ago and found all the old boxes, took it into the living room, and started to unpack… wife going: “what are you doing and what on earth is that stuff??” Tried to explain to her the finer details of the Squat Colossus, but I don’t think it caught her interest.

Have to go contact the old gang now, to see if they are interested :)


Cheers
SoEgern

Damn, some of you have large collections… I am looking at you Ulric!
Author:  GlynG [ Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic Space Marine, hooked again
Good that you're getting back into Epic! :) Check out the Epic Armageddon rules too, it's the current edition, more commonly played and a better game than Space Marine IMO.

There are some impressive collections out there, I take it you haven't seen Lylekelm's Titans or the PRIMARCHLOAD?
Author:  Riquende [ Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic Space Marine, hooked again
I too am getting back in after some time - played it a lot as a kid, then had a few games 5-6 years ago. GW's recent decision to kill their 6mm range got me buying bits before they were unobtainable forever, and buying stuff made me start wanting to play again.

@GlynG I like how you say "current edition" as if there is one....
Author:  Mattman [ Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic Space Marine, hooked again
GlynG wrote:
Good that you're getting back into Epic! :) Check out the Epic Armageddon rules too, it's the current edition, more commonly played and a better game than Space Marine IMO.


Oi, stop trying to steal our players :P

As you say, it's a better game in your opinion, my opinion is Spare Marine 2/NetEpic is the superior game ;D

Matt
Author:  The Bissler [ Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic Space Marine, hooked again
Don't worry Mattman, I think I might claim revenge by going on a NetEpic recruitment drive in the E:A forums. Let the threadjacking antics commence! ;)

More important though than a dish served cold is the need to offer SoEgern a warm welcome back to Epic! Hope you enjoy the forum!

About the changes; sadly I only discovered the forum about a year ago. Our good friend Primarch may be able to help you if he is about later!

Oh, and you've arrived at a very interesting time! Have a look at a few of the NetEpic topics, the NetEpic community led by the aforementioned Primarch are currently working on new rules for Titans and for Titan experience (as well as my own little campaign project), please feel free to let us know what you think!

Cheers!
Author:  primarch [ Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic Space Marine, hooked again
GlynG wrote:
Good that you're getting back into Epic! :) Check out the Epic Armageddon rules too, it's the current edition, more commonly played and a better game than Space Marine IMO.

There are some impressive collections out there, I take it you haven't seen Lylekelm's Titans or the PRIMARCHLOAD?



Hi!

Naughty, naughty... :tut ;)

GlynG's point is valid in the sense that if you "want to play" it may be easier to find and EpicA player since that game is more recent as far as years go. You'll have to probably make your own gaming group for net epic or older rulesets. Not a bad thing, but requires more work. :)

Of course realize "epic" in general is no longer supported by the company that created it and all that is left is this forum (which you have found) and the different groups that support each version. This site will support your needs which ever version you decide is best.

Also, you come at a interesting time as I have come back from several years of inactivity and the net epic sections are once more active. :)

Since I am the one who coordinates net epic I can field any direct questions you may have. I'm not clear what you mean by "changes in background", so if you can be more specific I will gladly answer them.

Welcome to the boards and please browse around, there are many resources here for you whatever flavor of epic you'd like to play.

Primarch
Author:  MagnusIlluminus [ Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic Space Marine, hooked again
I think he may want to see the yahoo group that people now and then mention where all the discussion about what to change and why happened all those years ago.

Agreed, welcome back to, in my opinion, the best edition of the Epic game.

If you are interested in playing in a virtual sense (IE, via email) look at my thread called 'Possible Online Campaign'. The game has started, but only just, so there is lots of room for more players.
Author:  SoEgern [ Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic Space Marine, hooked again
Thank you all for your warm welcome.

Have never tried Epic 40K or EA, but it could be interesting at least skimming the rules. Epic 40K was released just about the time we stopped gaming, so I am only familiar with SM2.

I have looked briefly at the threads regarding alternative rules for titans. I really like the “Crew can get experience ideas”, but the consequences of the plasma rules is a bit overwhelming though, and I find it a hard to judge them. I never liked the way the single roll for Imperator Titans plasma could dictate the outcome of a battle, but then again we rarely used Imperators as 3-5000p was the usual size. I will take a closer look though.

Bissler I have read and enjoyed your battle reports (well not all of them yet :) ) and the idea of a campaign really appeals to me. I think it is the same as with the experience rules, I like to see things evolve.

"changes in background"… bad language! What I did mean was “where did you have the discussions that let to the changes.”

MagnusIlluminus you got it right. And I will have a look at the “Possible Online Campaign” thread.

Thank You again for the nice welcome. I will stick around, and if I get a gaming group going (even if it is just a one shot) I will let you know.

SoEgern
Author:  The Bissler [ Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic Space Marine, hooked again
SoEgern wrote:
Epic 40K was released just about the time we stopped gaming, so I am only familiar with SM2.


Sounds similar to my experience - I loved SM2 but dropped out just about the time that Titan Legions came out.

SoEgern wrote:
I have looked briefly at the threads regarding alternative rules for titans. I really like the “Crew can get experience ideas”, but the consequences of the plasma rules is a bit overwhelming though, and I find it a hard to judge them. I never liked the way the single roll for Imperator Titans plasma could dictate the outcome of a battle, but then again we rarely used Imperators as 3-5000p was the usual size. I will take a closer look though.


I did get to try a game with the Mega-Gargant & Imperator Titan plus some Knights. I loathed it. As far as I'm concerned they took all of the fun away by stripping out the one thing that really made Epic great - strategic battles. I never bought Titan Legions and I still don't own anything bigger than a Great Gargant / Warlord Titan. The Knights made me feel like I was playing WH40K so I didn't care for them either. I think there will be a plan to beef up Titans without using the plasma rules. Primarch can correct me if I'm wrong. One quick note, the reason the Titans are being improved is because they didn't seem powerful enough for their points costs, particularly when compared to the Praetorians which have their own hit charts as well now.

SoEgern wrote:
Bissler I have read and enjoyed your battle reports (well not all of them yet :) ) and the idea of a campaign really appeals to me.


Thanks SoEgern, appreciate the kind comments, very nice to know that someone enjoys the nonsense I write! I would be amazed if anyone had read them all - there are quite a few! Hope the campaign thread/rules are of interest, feel free to let rip with any criticisms you may have! Positive or otherwise, all feedback is good! :D

SoEgern wrote:
Thank You again for the nice welcome. I will stick around, and if I get a gaming group going (even if it is just a one shot) I will let you know.

SoEgern


Good to have you on board! I look forward to reading some of your battle reports if you get a group going!
;)
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic Space Marine, hooked again
Welcome aboard, SoEgern!
Author:  SoEgern [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic Space Marine, hooked again
Titan battle groups did change the gameplay didn’t they? And it made it harder for Squats and Chaos I think. I have seen threads discussing the need to restrict Chaos to prevent powerplay, but as I remember it they were one of the weaker forces, or maybe we just didn’t use them very well :)

I have seen the hit charts for some of the praetorians, and while I agree that they needed more staying power, maybe it’s too much they seem very difficult to take out. I haven’t tried the new rules though, just read them. It could be my opinion change after a test game.

Dwarf Supreme wrote:
Welcome aboard, SoEgern!

Thank you Dwarf Supreme :)

SoEgern
Author:  primarch [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic Space Marine, hooked again
SoEgern wrote:
Titan battle groups did change the gameplay didn’t they? And it made it harder for Squats and Chaos I think. I have seen threads discussing the need to restrict Chaos to prevent powerplay, but as I remember it they were one of the weaker forces, or maybe we just didn’t use them very well :)

I have seen the hit charts for some of the praetorians, and while I agree that they needed more staying power, maybe it’s too much they seem very difficult to take out. I haven’t tried the new rules though, just read them. It could be my opinion change after a test game.

Dwarf Supreme wrote:
Welcome aboard, SoEgern!

Thank you Dwarf Supreme :)

SoEgern


Hi!

Praetorians are indeed tough with hit location templates. Very tough. But the counter argument was they were not worth the points, now they are.

One side effect of this is that maybe (there is no general consensus on this), it made titans "weaker". That's why the alternate titan rules were made with plasma usage and such, since overall titans are more expensive units.

We balanced out many things over the years, so you can't really overpower with some armies as you could it the original rules. Mainly, we filtered out all the "cheese".

One thing I would recommend, don't assume things work like they did in the original rules. There were many small, but high impact changes (like alternating move and shoot) amongst other things. They make the game play very different from the stock version.

Primarch
Author:  ulric [ Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic Space Marine, hooked again
Welcome SoEgern,
choose whatever system you like.
If you choose E:A you will find more players
If you choose NETEPIC you will be much more familar with the rules and gameplay

NETEPIC is more an upgraded version of SM/TL
while E:A is more a new games system addicted to more or less smaller armies
and competition fighting IMO


You hink I have a lot of stuff?
watch primarchload also L4 must have a house full of 6mm stuff
and I do noz want to know how many IG points Warhead could throw on a board
but I do my best ;D
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