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No Space Marine Rhino variant company cards? And LRH prices
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=25396		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Riquende [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  No Space Marine Rhino variant company cards? And LRH prices
Hi

Since the 'glory days' of Space Marine I've wondered why Imperial Guard get certain company cards that Space Marines don't - specifically the Predator and Whirlwind companies. I'm just wondering if there's a specific reason the NetEpic writers didn't add those in when making up the NetEpic books.

2nd thing, seems to me that the Land Raider Helios is a little pricey for what it does, it essentially amalgamates the Whirlwind and Land Raider but costs more than the two of them put together, despite sacrificing the survivability that having two separate targets for the enemy gives you and the ability to transport troops. Literally the only reason to use Helios squadrons is if you absolutely have to have both weapon systems but don't have enough free support card slots to take them. Seems that there should be a slight discount to the 400pt cost of Land Raiders+Whirlwinds, bringing them down to 375 or even 350.

Unless I'm missing something blindingly obvious?
Author:  Mattman [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No Space Marine Rhino variant company cards? And LRH pri
There have been a few discussions about some of the points costs, especially the newer stuff (I have even raised an issue that marine vets are to cheap). I think the guys are just giving players a chance to use the rules for a while before going through another review/update.
I don't think anyone would be against you playtesting at various point levels and giving your feedback, one of my posts a few months ago was about alternative company formations for the Salamanders chapter and some costs for them which I plan to try out at some point.

I have had the same thoughts regarding the Predator and Whirlwind companies.
Back in the day of second ed and rogue trader, guard did use them but now they have so many more vehicle options they don't need them anymore. Again, I doubt anyone would have a problem using them in a marine list, although at the current points they are crewed by guard with morale 4, so if you wanted marines in them you would have to up the cost slightly.
Author:  Riquende [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Space Marine Rhino variant company cards? And LRH pri
Just checked the NetEpic book and it seems I was wrong about Whirlwind companies (IG can take Rocket companies that include Whirlwinds), obviously what I was misremembering was the Vindicator companies.

As for the price of a Predator company, Marines pay 200pts for the squadron and IG pay 250 for the exact same stats (with worse morale), so I don't think Marines should pay more for them. It looks like they'd either be 550 or 600.
Author:  Irisado [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Space Marine Rhino variant company cards? And LRH pri
Space Marines are traditionally a rapid deployment army with little in the way of heavy armour, so it makes sense to me, and always has done, that they don't have a variety of armoured companies. That's the role of the Imperial Guard.

As for the Land Raider company, it has always been a touch expensive, but they are tough vehicles, which do require quite a bit of fire power to stop, so I'd have to be persuaded by play testing that a points drop is in order.
Author:  Riquende [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Space Marine Rhino variant company cards? And LRH pri
Not Land Raiders in general, just specifically the Land Raider Helios squadron, which is a set of 3 Land Raiders with no transport capacity and a Whiirlwind multilauncher each, for more than it would cost to buy the Land Raiders and Whirlwinds separately.
Author:  Irisado [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Space Marine Rhino variant company cards? And LRH pri
I see, my apologies, I misread your post. A lot of these newer additions are formations which I've neither used nor faced, so I can't really comment.
Author:  The Bissler [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Space Marine Rhino variant company cards? And LRH pri
Hmm, I do reckon the price hike of a company of standard Land Raiders from 600 to 700 points in NetEpic Gold is a bit harsh. I used to always have a Land Raider Company as the starting point for my army as a no-brainer but now I consider it much more carefully. Sure, maybe that does mean that they were perhaps underpriced, but not when you consider that an Eldar Falcon Host is 450 points...
Author:  Riquende [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No Space Marine Rhino variant company cards? And LRH pri
Irisado wrote:
Space Marines are traditionally a rapid deployment army with little in the way of heavy armour, so it makes sense to me, and always has done, that they don't have a variety of armoured companies. That's the role of the Imperial Guard.



That's how I reason it out as well, except that Space Marines can already take the Land Raider company which is a heavier armoured company than Predators would be. I suppose the LR company can be considered a 'transport upgrade' option, but I've never used it as such, I don't know if anybody else has?
Author:  The Bissler [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No Space Marine Rhino variant company cards? And LRH pri
Riquende wrote:
That's how I reason it out as well, except that Space Marines can already take the Land Raider company which is a heavier armoured company than Predators would be. I suppose the LR company can be considered a 'transport upgrade' option, but I've never used it as such, I don't know if anybody else has?


Nope! Only for Terminators, but then that's because they come as the transport option for them. The reason you would never do this is because the Marines always have the Rhinos to transport them (which are better suited to the task than Land Raiders anyway, who wants to lose out on their firepower by charging Land Raiders?).

I have used them to transport troops when I've taken them for other armies such as Squats and Chaos.
Author:  Llamahead [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Space Marine Rhino variant company cards? And LRH pri
Personally I just use the IG ally rules and tae them anyway. Lamd Speeder Squadrons are another case.
Author:  PapaJulietRomeo [ Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No Space Marine Rhino variant company cards? And LRH pri
Do IG actually have Predators and Whirlwinds in the modern 40k lists? I always assumed their inclusion in the NetEpic IG list was to avoid forcing older armies to make significant changes under NetEpic rules.

Edit: Do they have Land Speeders either under 40k?

Agree about the LR Helios, but think the 50 pt increase from 2nd Ed for the basic LR detachment is too much. I've gone for Predators for the extra fire power and cheaper points cost.

Think its a shame that Razorbacks are so over-valued. Would've liked to have bad some but they're way too dear. (I know I've whinged about this before ;) ).
Author:  Irisado [ Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Space Marine Rhino variant company cards? And LRH pri
Imperial Guard do not have access to such units in their standard 40K codex, no.
Author:  primarch [ Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No Space Marine Rhino variant company cards? And LRH pri
Hi!

I would worry about "whining" much longer. The last revision was so long ago that it seems many previously held views may no longer apply.

Hold on to those thoughts a little while longer, with my new found enthusiasm, I will give them a platform to be voiced and considered. :)

Primarch
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