Tactical Command
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Warp Missile vs. Holo field
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=17436		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  eysi [ Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Warp Missile vs. Holo field
Please keep in mind, that only the part which covers the warp missile vs. holo field is to be accounted in your final judgment

netepic 4 Holo field rules.

Holo-fields are useless against barrage weapons. Any barrage weapon attack ignores the Holo-field save for purposes of determining damage. On the other hand, Holo-field saves apply to all weapon attacks that do not use a template and are not psychic attacks, including Warp Missiles and even multiple Vibro-Cannon shots. The fact that the Warp missile does not travel through normal space is irrelevant since the Holo-field blocks the sight of the firer and conceals the Titan, and hence the firer may shoot the missile to a wrong spot, through Warp or not. If you want to destroy an Eldar Titan, use a barrage missile.
(side note, even 4.1 the barrages did always scatter ... thanks to darkangel)

netepic 5 Holo field rules.

Holo-fields: These shields disrupt targeting systems and distort the image of the titan. The effectiveness of
the shield depends on the speed the titan is moving. The shields provide a Fixed Save according to the table below.
This save does not apply to weapons that use any kind of template, but any barrage template that is placed to cover
the titan will always scatter regardless of whether the barrage is direct or not. Holo-fields provide a 4+ Psychic Save
against powers that require a line of sight.

Since holo field are considered as shields they are ignored by the warp missile.


since nobody knows why the rules changed the way they did, we were discussing for hours with no real solution.
Please choose what you consider fair/intended.
this is not a rule interpretation.
Author:  ulric [ Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Warp Missile vs. Holo field
thanks eysi

ohh I voted option 1 of course
Author:  eysi [ Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Warp Missile vs. Holo field
np
i wont vote on this on, but the outcome will be interesting.
Author:  darkangel [ Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Warp Missile vs. Holo field
Quote: (eysi @ Dec. 16 2009, 16:18 )

netepic 4 Holo field rules.

Holo-fields are useless against barrage weapons. Any barrage weapon attack ignores the Holo-field save for purposes of determining damage.


netepic 5 Holo field rules.

This save does not apply to weapons that use any kind of template, but any barrage template that is placed to cover the titan will always scatter regardless of whether the barrage is direct or not.

You can not compare these rules at all?

in version 4 barrage weapons have not scattered!!!

so it's not really easy possible to take out a little and leave something else untouched. no equilibrium!
Author:  Biel el'Jonson [ Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Warp Missile vs. Holo field
The question is "How do you understand the current rules ?" or "How do you wish that the rules be written ?"
Author:  eysi [ Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Warp Missile vs. Holo field
this vote just concerns the matter of the warp missile nothing else.
so yes, we can compare the rules.

the warp missile costs only 1 VP - 125points and will destroy or cripple an average phantom titan(ranging from 4 to 8 VP) in about 5 from 6 scenarios.

barrage weapons on the other hand are not this kind of direct killer.

//
what you consider fair/intended.
"wish" would be wrong, because then every imperial player would vote against and every elder for "original" holo fields.
Author:  darkangel [ Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Warp Missile vs. Holo field
Quote: (eysi @ Dec. 16 2009, 16:37 )

this vote just concerns the matter of the warp missile nothing else.
so yes, we can compare the rules.

that's not the subject!

fact is that you now wish that a holo-field protects against a warp. This was changed in the version 5 but on the other side the holo field was upgraded due to barrage weapons. than in equilibrium.

now you wish that the holo-field protects against a warp (back to version 4), but barrage weapons should continue to scatter!

if the version 4 should be valid, then barrage weapons should no longer scatter!

either all or nothing. We're not "what you wish for"

this vote makes no sense!
Author:  eysi [ Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Warp Missile vs. Holo field
this is the subject,

since all indicates that there has never been a discussion about the new subject warp missile against holo field.
but there were several indication that the benefit of "always scatter" was implemented with purpose.

So it is not an all or nothing vote,
please try not to change the subject.


this poll hast just one purpose nothing more or less.
Author:  Biel el'Jonson [ Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Warp Missile vs. Holo field
Quote: 

this vote just concerns the matter of the warp missile nothing else.

I didn't spoke about all the rules when I asked if the question is "How do you understand the current rules ?" or "How do you wish that the rules be written ?". But just about the warp rules. I know it is not always easy to understand my sentences, sorry if my english is bad but I make efforts, writting with a dictionnary on my knees. You can correct me, that will be welcome :)

Quote: 

"wish" would be wrong, because then every imperial player would vote against and every elder for "original" holo fields.

Some will vote for their side, some won't. If we think that all the players are subjective, we can stop any kind of discussions on this forum. Me, I think that the objectivity of some can well-balance the disussions between subjectives players.
Author:  darkangel [ Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Warp Missile vs. Holo field
Quote: (eysi @ Dec. 16 2009, 17:04 )

but there were several indication that the benefit of "always scatter" was implemented with purpose.

yes, and the purpose was that you had to change it, because the eldar titan otherwise would have been too weak. no save against warp + barrage (ignore the shields). But you're right, now I interpret, because here no one knows why and by whom the rules of 4 to 5 have been changed!
Author:  zap123 [ Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:03 am ]
Post subject:  Warp Missile vs. Holo field
Warp missile is a direct shot so Holofield save should apply.
Author:  Biel el'Jonson [ Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:50 am ]
Post subject:  Warp Missile vs. Holo field
That's not written like that in the rules Zap.
A discussion of this is here : http://www.tacticalwargames.net/forums....6;st=60
Author:  zap123 [ Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:22 am ]
Post subject:  Warp Missile vs. Holo field
What rules?  The 5.2 army book descriptions of Holo Fields and the Warp Missile have nothing that precludes Holo Fields working against a Warp.
Author:  Biel el'Jonson [ Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Warp Missile vs. Holo field
As I said Zap, you should read that discussion : http://www.tacticalwargames.net/forums....6;st=60
Author:  zap123 [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:28 am ]
Post subject:  Warp Missile vs. Holo field
Just tell me exactly what "rules" you are quoting.
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