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Doom weavers Vs Titans
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=17116		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  scream [ Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Doom weavers Vs Titans
Hi,

1) could someone explains me how doomweaver web attacks work on a titan/praetorians ?

I hardly understand the meaning of:

"Units with a hit location template and no shields are struck on a random location for the highest damage listed in that
particular template."

Does it mean:
- a random location on the titan suffer maximum damage ?
- a random location from the highest ones on the template suffer a standard damage roll ?

2) How does the doomweaver attack work on a bio titan ? As they do not have any shields, do they suffer a critical hit when they are hit ?

Thanks for your help :)
Author:  zap123 [ Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:39 am ]
Post subject:  Doom weavers Vs Titans
From the description:

"Models under a Doomweaver template that have active shields/fields or a 1+ armor save are unaffected. & Units with a hit location template and no shields are struck once on a random location for the highest damage listed in that particular template.  If the location struck has a 1+ save no damage is caused."

So if you have no shields or fields left and fail the dodge roll, find a random location (generally pick one on the top of the model and then roll hit location dice).  If the location has 1+ save then no damage, otherwise damage is considered an automatic 6.

Against a bio titan - If it fails its "dodge" roll, randomly pick a location on the top of the titan that will be hit.  The titan takes a wound and you get to roll to see if you do a critical as normal.
Author:  Warhead [ Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Doom weavers Vs Titans
Quote: 

you get to roll to see if you do a critical as normal


But why? It's failed it's dodge, you've automatically defeated it's armour... ok, I agree with rolling to see if a critical occurs but surely if successful the damage caused is the maximum just as with a Titan/Gargant etc?
Author:  scream [ Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Doom weavers Vs Titans
Quote: (Warhead @ Nov. 11 2009, 19:22 )

But why? It's failed it's dodge, you've automatically defeated it's armour... ok, I agree with rolling to see if a critical occurs but surely if successful the damage caused is the maximum just as with a Titan/Gargant etc?

I understand that it may be frustating but bio-titans do not have any shields to protect them from the webs so allowing a maximum critical hit would make the doom-weavers the best bio-titans killers from the game. With their unlimited range and the web template (that can hit a titan several times in a single shot), they would become too good against hierodules and hierophants.
Author:  zap123 [ Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Doom weavers Vs Titans
The bio titans work differently and there's nothing in the Doomweaver rules to overrule the bio titan rules, sorry.
Author:  Biel el'Jonson [ Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:02 am ]
Post subject:  Doom weavers Vs Titans
Doomweaver rules do not speak about critical hits and bio-titans rules do not speak about doomweaver shots. No army book prevail over the other. So, this question need a clarification :)
Author:  zap123 [ Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:18 am ]
Post subject:  Doom weavers Vs Titans
If you read both carefully and make no assumptions it is fairly clear.  The Doomweaver example clearly relates to "normal" template units with a saving throw on each square.  They don't give a specific example of what to do with a Bio Titan template, so the rules for the Bio Titan template are in force.
Author:  Biel el'Jonson [ Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:35 am ]
Post subject:  Doom weavers Vs Titans
I must disagree.

  • "Models under a Doomweaver template that have active shields or a 1+ armor save are unaffected."

    This sentence do not means that the "square" with 1+ save are unaffected. But it means that models that have a 1+ armor are unaffected.
    1st point to clarify because it could be interpreted that reaver titan cannot be affected by doomweaver because they have a +1 armor save. Only at the head, but they have a 1+ armor save.

  • "Units with a hit location template and no shields are struck on a random location for the highest damage listed in that
    particular template. Infantry in buildings roll 4+ as normal to avoid the web."

    This sentence do not speak about any save. So, even if this rule do not prevail on the bio-titans rules, it do not expel bio-titans. 2nd point to clarify for the definitive versions of the army book.
Author:  Pettan [ Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:24 am ]
Post subject:  Doom weavers Vs Titans
The whole "unaffected if 1+ save and autokill (more or less) if 2+ or worse is kinda strange to me. Id rather have a -3 save instead. Right now its a great weapon against an imperator but its impossible to kill a tiny "in comparison" superheavy. Just strange and wicked. Perhaps not every weapon should be logical. "Shrugs" :rock:

/Peter
Author:  scream [ Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:38 am ]
Post subject:  Doom weavers Vs Titans
It would be possible for the Imperator to consider that 2+ to 4+ hit location saves are immunized to doomweaver template.
Author:  sanjuro [ Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Doom weavers Vs Titans
how about "doesn't affect titans and praetorians other than immobilize them for a turn or something?
Author:  ulric [ Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Doom weavers Vs Titans
[QUOTEhow about "doesn't affect titans and praetorians other than immobilize them for a turn or something?[/QUOTE]
should be something like that
I think the innovator did not want them as titan-killer
Its more a problem in which way you read/understand the rules
Author:  Warhead [ Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Doom weavers Vs Titans
Nope, that doesn't work for me.

The Classic rule states anything with a 2+ that gets hit by a Doomweaver temp to the max damage or destroyed. It scatters twice and the target gets to dodge. I will accept that buildings (or it should be targets with a 2D6 building save) can't be destroyed, which incidentally would include Imperators as they have a 2D6 save, no need for math or funny 2+ - 4+ = immune rules.

In my little world, Bio-Titans get to dodge Doomweaver Templates with a +1 bonus due to agility, so they dodge on a 3+ now. (Perhaps to keep it consistent Scout Titans should too). If the Bio-Titan is hit it doesn't have a 1+ save so it takes a wound. Roll for a location (if it rolls off the table the crit is ignored but the wound still counts). If the hit lands on a location then roll on the Crit table without mod as normal. IF successful the Bio-Titan receives a crit automatically as the highest result. Bio-Titans regenerate and have Hive Cards that help address their shieldlessness, that was the game design.
Author:  Ifurita [ Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Doom weavers Vs Titans
Just reading through this, and I was wondering if this got resolved?

The reason I ask is this. If the Eldar (because their holofields don't defend against artillery or area effect weapons) have a gap in their defenses, why wouldn't Tyranid Biotitans have an Achilles heel against weapons like the Doom weaver? It's a gap in their defense that if they don't have shields, a weapon like the doom weaver WOULD be the best possible weapon against them. If noone is plugging the eldar area effect vulnerability, then why should Tyranids get this defensive gap plugged?
Author:  Warhead [ Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Doom weavers Vs Titans
Spoken like a true Eldar Player. I play Eldar too btw, before you go off on one. Doom Weaver 150 points. Bio-Titan 600-ish points with weapons and now you propose it should be dead on a 4+... Hmm, yes, I see the sense of inbuilt flaws now. Oh, wait, no I really don't.

Unless the optional rules... (when did original rules get changed to optional rules anyway!?!) are used then Bio-Titans are an expensive waist of points. No wonder I had a new Nid player bin the game after being torn apart a couple of times. If I had used Doomweavers like this he would have keeled over dead with apoplexy.
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