Tactical Command
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/

The Red Harvest - Necron Heavies
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=15063		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Warhead [ Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  The Red Harvest - Necron Heavies
Hi guys,

I would like to use some of the Necron options in the EA rules for NetEpic. If for no other reason than I have made the models. I also feel the EA models are spot on to reflect the Necrons list for heavy units. Inspired by the fantastic articles in "Epic RAIDERS" I hope with all your help to get a working set of rules for these models.

Models I would like to see... Abattoir, Aeonic Orb, Warbarque, Obelisk.

ABATTOIR

In the ancient days, when the power of the C'tan dominated the Galaxy, the servants of the Star Gods raised gigantic temples in their honor. In these places of darkest nightmare, horrific sacrifices were performed to feed the endless desire of the C'tan. In time, sacrifices could not be brought to the temples fast enough to sate the C'tan's evil hunger for suffering and so they used their power and the technology of their servants to transform the temples into gargantuan engines of destruction. During the latter days of the War in Heaven, before the Necron's long slumber, the Eldar called these terrifying constructs "World
Harvesters". Since their recent appearance, the Imperium has given them a new name: The Abattoirs. Massive beyond belief, these structures are not equipped to "phase". Instead, they must be transported to the world whose
population they are to harvest by a Necron fleet. The ships simply glide into orbit and drop them onto the world to let them perform their grizzly task. The Abattoir's weapons are similar in function to the gauss weapons of the other Necrons, but vastly more powerful. These "harvesters", which are born on tentacle-like arms deployed from the capacitor pyramids, not
only rip their victims apart at the molecular level, but also are able to absorb and store the terror and agony of their victim's death. The monstrous energies are used to feed the C'tan, sustaining them in times when fresh victims are in short supply. Additionally, the Abattoir is able to drop the scarabs that it creates to help maintain its systems. These scarabs swarm out to dispatch foes and assist in the harvest.
Excerpt from Epic Raiders EA Supplement


20cm Max, 1+ (all round save),  +12 Caf,

Scarab Swarms 50cm, 6cm Temp, 6BP, -2TSM, Ignore cover
Harvesters (Tendrils) -    -    -    -    Titan Point Defence, +2 Damage

Praetorian, Fearless, Inorganic, Living Metal, Skimmer, Portal (Transport x?) Fear or Terror?

Cost? All these are subject to change as they are only a basic framework of stats.
Author:  togarini [ Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  The Red Harvest - Necron Heavies
the basic idea and fluff makes perfect sense to me, but i would probably make it a flyer and have it be rather slow. however, once over units it would begin reaping, centering the 12cm template on the model. (picturing the independence day scenes).

on the general subject of necron heavies i find it a bit tedious to only expect pyramids of various sizes. why not some kind of floating barge? with a large necron lord as the "kharon" to sail the dead to the ctan. a khight-sized necron would also make good sense imo, as some sort of mechanical bone giant with antitank weapon.

simply copying the 40k units makes for a boring prospect imo. this IS epic after all.
Author:  Warhead [ Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  The Red Harvest - Necron Heavies
Hi Togarini,

Yeah, floater may be a better option than skimmer. Like a Tzeentch Silver Tower or Squat Airlord or Warp Palace.  :agree: It'll push the cost up though, but that can't be helped. I would like better special rules for the close combat or way it harvests.

i find it a bit tedious to only expect pyramids of various sizes. why not some kind of floating barge?
The EA lads must be on the right tracks then as the Warbarque is a Barge type thing. I have yet to make one so no pic.

The Necron Tomb Stalker is more like a Titan Spider but I think a skimmer... or floater idea is more in keeping... especially since I built mine that way...


The Obelisk is just a tank non-portal type Monolith so no avoiding the architecture there I'm afraid.


The Aeonic Orb is... different... (side view).
Author:  zap123 [ Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:22 am ]
Post subject:  The Red Harvest - Necron Heavies
There is a GW concept sketch floating around for the Tomb Stalker than clearly shows it walking.  The point of redoing the Necron stuff to be GW cannon, so it walker it is.  

A titan popping up is also a twee silly, and disruptive.
Author:  Warhead [ Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  The Red Harvest - Necron Heavies
*sigh!*  Normally I would have said, to each their own... but...   :rock:  

...It doesn't have to be silly or disruptive. There are wings and skimmer abilities for Greater Daemons (and even Floater for Tzeentch Titan) and rules that prevent just that. So why not here? Besides, I seem to recall reading somewhere on the threads that Jervis Jonston on designing Necrons was dead against Walkers, Knights and Titans.

I know nothing of Games Workshop concept sketches for Necron Titans but regardless, ever since seeing even the first list for Necrons (Slann and Necron List?) I was uninspired by the Tomb Stalker Titan concept. *shrug*

Instead of standing in my way, trying to prevent me from doing something I think is more in keeping with the Necron style, why not lend a hand?.. isn't that what this site is for? It is most off putting when I mostly get unproductive criticism. I do not believe that most of my ideas are bad and I should think many have merit. Or at the very least deserve to be explored not put down. Also when sorting out ideas you sometimes have to go through the gamut of sucky ones before finding the right one for the job. I'm asking for help but keep getting cut short... most irritating and it's getting to a point.

Also, the Tomb Stalker is only mentioned... with reference to my own, personal view regards the model... thanks for your assistance on the Abattoir, most helpful.  :rock: I know you have done a lot of work on this list and it would have been nice to have had the benefit of your incite and experience but quite frankly, not if this is the gist of it. Mine! Don't touch, change/add nothing.

With the exception of MY Tomb Stalker I have made these models using the list of NEW Necron stuff from the Epic Armageddon Raiders supplement. They make a lot of sense and are credible new units that really should be included in the NetEpic Necron list. There is nothing that will stop me from doing just that (even if only locally) so if you wish to help, then help if not then regretfully so be it.  :sad:
Author:  togarini [ Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  The Red Harvest - Necron Heavies
well... i totally see where your comming from warhead and it is a tough job trying to fill in the blanks of the necrons. everyone has a different view of them, and personally, when i saw the ships for them in BFG i threw up in large quantities and made my own :)

IMO the gw design team should have worked together more closely and made some more fluff for the list for inspired players to use and abuse, and since they made the rules to build your own superheavies for 40k there has not been a single example of a necron "big un".

Zap: so what if his idea of necrons is a bit off in your view? if the rules representing them are in the spirit of the list (eg, few and expensive but resilient).

When eastetics come into the picture its each to his own, and i for one preserve my right to put a used gum on a base and call it a chaos spawn  :) not that ive ever done so, but their my minis damn it.

the harvester is a good basic idea but i still oppose the imaging of it as simply being a large monolith with tentacles. why not something a little more personalised. floating yes, that is a great way to harvest things, but i would make the top part of it as the upper body of a necron destroyer and add to the fluff saying its the largest task for any necron lord and that they are infused with these things to insure total efficiency. ill do a sketch of this monster later, and once my camera gets some new batteries ill post it here.
Author:  Warhead [ Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  The Red Harvest - Necron Heavies
...thank you, yes I agree. I look forward to your pictures with great interest.

Just so you understand, these ideas and designs are from Epic Armageddon and I did not come up with them, that was done by some of the lads on the EA site in this forum...

I think they did a fantastic job and again I would like to see these units in my game of choice NetEpic.

My version of the Tomb Stalker will just hover... anti grav like. The only real difference is that it does not have leg damage locations on the template. This will make it harder to damage due to less areas. The initial location template without the leg areas will do just about fine too. The weapons are a bit "Mehh" but I will see how they go for now and the Caf would have to be decreased for my model I think. This may be a good trade off for the hover ability.
Author:  togarini [ Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:  The Red Harvest - Necron Heavies
a side note on harvest weapon: a morale check dam application might be fitting since they do drain "souls" and therefore it might even be a psykic attack imo. also, a weapon that increases its attack strength from turn to turn as long as its firing might be cool too...
Author:  Warhead [ Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  The Red Harvest - Necron Heavies
Nice, I was thinking "Terror Weapon" formations killed by this units attacks must make a morale check as if subjected to terror/fear?

I like the ranged weapon thing too. I'll need to mull that one over for how it can be implemented, any more ideas there?
Author:  togarini [ Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:  The Red Harvest - Necron Heavies
im thinking that the harvester might be able to add a dice to its strength of weapons for each 5 units or faction of that its killed with the harvest weapon. either that or the harvester gains "soul counters" that it can use to increase the power of its harvest aoe.
however to balance this i think every unit hit by the harvester should be able to make a morale check to be unaffected, since the strong of will would last longer under its withering gaze.

a second option would be that the harvester only gets the small circular template but it remains in play. however, once every necron turn, the player gets to move it 10cm in a direction he wants. if its unable to harvest anything at any point after this move, the weapon resets and may be fired in the next turn, but at its starting strength.
this would discourage the enemy to place his units too close to eachother, thereby trying to limit the harvesters power... oh the tactical implications.

another option that might be a lot more fun and tactically challenging, might be to include some kind of spy drone that the harvester can use to center its attacks around as if it was at that location. units that functioned a lot like wraiths do, fast and hard to hit, but deadly as they give the otherwise slow harvester a much needed range boost. the tactic would be to simply place them in cover but close to enemy units and drain their souls from there. if this option is selected i would make the harvest template 12 cm and have a range of merely 25cm. that way you need to think hard but when its into position you will wreak havoc.

thats just from the top of my head. feel free to use and abuse these
Author:  Warhead [ Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:  The Red Harvest - Necron Heavies
The Harvester is a Physical attack. Like the gauss weapons it disassembles the target to it's most basic components and absorbs the victims terror to store and later feed it's C'Tan master. It's nasty but not psychic unfortunately. I would like to limit the Harvester attack to a purely Close Combat attack as with the original EA rules. The Scarab Swarms are the real ranged attack and I imagine they swamp an enemy unit like the Calamari in the Matrix... just smaller.

The first option is similar to an idea I had for a Giant Chaos Spawn Greater Daemon (Yet another model, this time 40K) that would absorb units and replenish its wounds. Unfortunately it is harder to implement without getting bogged down than it may seem. In most cases this is too powerful or the slow units is given an appropriately wide birth and shot to crud. But I can't help liking the idea.

Option two sounds like the roving eye of sauron but it's not a bad idea. Sucking up souls as it goes... hmm. Not sure it fits on the Abattoir but I'm filing this one away.

Option three is a bit too Tau for Necron IMO. In that remote units are relaying the effects of the weapon with regards targeting.

Still, thanks for the ideas. You've given me options.
Author:  togarini [ Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:09 am ]
Post subject:  The Red Harvest - Necron Heavies
duely noted and gladly given :)

how about this one then: for each consecutive turn the harvester is in CC range with a harvestable unit, it gets +1 to hit. that way it will slowly but surely devour anything foolish enough to be caught in its path.
Author:  Warhead [ Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:34 am ]
Post subject:  The Red Harvest - Necron Heavies
It could pork it's way through a Guard Company and be a mega god in one turn... way too much. I wish I could but the forum would rightly crush me for it.  :vD

Ok, you've been doing all the work and I have thrown down nothing... so here goes. It's not much...

Harvesters: Close Combat Weapon. Units in close combat with this unit at any time must pass a Morale Roll or go immediately onto Fall Back orders. Due to the nature of the Tendrils the Abattoir may not be overwhelmed in close combat by any unit smaller than Knight Class. (so no extra D6 in Close Combats unless they are Knight class and above) The way the Harvester tendrils disassemble their victim means that units with damage tables receive a +2 to damage rolls. The Abattoir should have a significant Caf value also... maybe 14+2D6?

The Abattoir always moves 20cm and hovers on an anti gravity field... or something. It may ignore terrain but not clime higher than a typical flying bases stand... or 5cm. It may always move this distance and always use it's ranged attack in the First Fire phase. The armour save is all round... should there be a Damage Location Template... hard on a triangle shape... perhaps a set number of wounds like the C'Tan or a Damage table like the IG Superheavy. It does gain the Living Metal ability as most Necron units.

Scarab Swarms: 50cm (x3 6cm Templates) 4+ -2TSM  Not an artillery barrage but can be fired indirectly without LOS or Scatter. The scarabs hunt for prey... hey, perhaps they should be constant templates buzzing around the Abattoir?..
Author:  togarini [ Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:46 am ]
Post subject:  The Red Harvest - Necron Heavies
both the caf and move rules seem reasonable imo, but the move is a bit too fast for something that massive. id say 15cm would fit the bill. however, i would let it deepstrike onto the field within 5 cm of a friendly unit with a move of less then 20 cm. that way it would keep the opponent second guessing himself until you drop it.

how about adding 1 dice to its cc (or pd) compliment for each turn its in cc to represent the building power of the soul collection?
Author:  zap123 [ Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:46 am ]
Post subject:  The Red Harvest - Necron Heavies
Quote: (Warhead @ 08 Mar. 2009, 09:39 )

*sigh!*  Normally I would have said, to each their own... but...   :rock:  

I know nothing of Games Workshop concept sketches for Necron Titans but regardless, ever since seeing even the first list for Necrons (Slann and Necron List?) I was uninspired by the Tomb Stalker Titan concept. *shrug*

Instead of standing in my way, trying to prevent me from doing something I think is more in keeping with the Necron style, why not lend a hand?.. isn't that what this site is for? It is most off putting when I mostly get unproductive criticism. I do not believe that most of my ideas are bad and I should think many have merit. Or at the very least deserve to be explored not put down. Also when sorting out ideas you sometimes have to go through the gamut of sucky ones before finding the right one for the job. I'm asking for help but keep getting cut short... most irritating and it's getting to a point.

Also, the Tomb Stalker is only mentioned... with reference to my own, personal view regards the model... thanks for your assistance on the Abattoir, most helpful.  :rock: I know you have done a lot of work on this list and it would have been nice to have had the benefit of your incite and experience but quite frankly, not if this is the gist of it. Mine! Don't touch, change/add nothing.

With the exception of MY Tomb Stalker I have made these models using the list of NEW Necron stuff from the Epic Armageddon Raiders supplement. They make a lot of sense and are credible new units that really should be included in the NetEpic Necron list. There is nothing that will stop me from doing just that (even if only locally) so if you wish to help, then help if not then regretfully so be it.  :sad:

It is interesting that you ask for feedback both for and against your ideas, but when I explain the rationale behind a design that you mentioned:

The Necron Tomb Stalker is more like a Titan Spider but I think a skimmer... or floater idea is more in keeping... especially since I built mine that way...

you reply with a multi-para response on how obstructionist I'm being.  Apologies...I'll shut up then.  Enjoy your thread.
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/