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Chaos Special Characters

 Post subject: Chaos Special Characters
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:18 pm 
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Attached are my rules and stats for two World Eater Special Characters.

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

Please Note: This is a first draft. If wishing to see the finished rules check the end result on page two.




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 Post subject: Chaos Special Characters
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:50 am 
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Quote: (Warhead @ 09 Jul. 2008, 18:18 )

Attached are my rules and stats for two World Eater Special Characters.

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

Hi!

Cool!

Thanks!

Primarch

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 Post subject: Chaos Special Characters
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:20 am 
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Another set of rules and stats this time for Ahriman Lord Sorcerer of Tzeentch.




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 Post subject: Chaos Special Characters
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:27 am 
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I love special characters :)

About Ahriman, here are my propositions:

- he is mainly a sorcerer and his CAF is really high, +2 or +3 should be enough for a Tzeentch unit
- the inferno bolter is OK but you could let it as a normal bolter and add the special ability of creating pink horrors to the staff with the following abilities:
> Black Staff of Ahriman: once per turn, place a normal barrage template within 35cm and LOS of Ahriman stand, any infantry stand at least half under the template is hit on a 5+ ignoring cover modifier. This is an ethereal psychic attack and no armor save is allowed (but psychic save still works). Units killed by this attack are replaced by a pink horror.
> Keeping the Negate (Psychic save) of 3+ and the +1 chaos power card is fine.
- about the Flying disc, it's a good idea but Ahriman will not be an infantry stand anymore so it will be easy to shoot him if there are no flying disc or any other skimmer in front of him. Maybe a command rhino could do the job.

Maybe some restriction could be added, like: can only be taken if at least 3000 points of Tzeentch force is fielded.

With this "reduction" of power, cost could be reduced. 250 points for a special character is really high, usually, when I create a profil for a special character, I try to match ~150 points for a single unit and ~250 points if an escort is provided with the stand.

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 Post subject: Chaos Special Characters
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:33 pm 
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Hey scream,

Thanks, always nice to get some feedback.  :grin:

Ok, the Caf was to reflect his 40K stats but I guess on an Epic Scale and as a game mechanic having Ahriman about the same as a normal Chaos Champion (+4) may be the better choice. Otherwise too many people will throw him into combat like a Khorne Berserker. Not the desired effect. Remember however he is a Chaos Space marine of the Thousand Sons and has been around a bit so should have more Caf than +2 or +3 at least.

The Pink Horror thing would work either way and only matters in the description so no real loss I suppose. My reasoning was that he could fire in the First Fire phase if assaulted even if he couldn't use his Psychic skills to defend himself and it again fits the 40K background fluff.

I still like the Flying Disc idea. It makes him more distinct and a careful player could be able to keep him out of trouble most times or buy some more Tzeentch units to guard against him being targeted. Perhaps making this optional would be best? That way people can make their own choices between Disc or Rhino.

The points restriction is a good point and I honestly thought I had included it but missed that one. Well spotted, posting stuff is not as easy as I thought it would have been. I now understand in part what Primarch etc must go through.

You could reduce the cost but I think Tzeentch units are normally highly priced but have some great abilities to compensate. This also I think reflect the added Chaos Reward Card too. Perhaps however with the reduction in Caf he could cost a little less, 200 - 225 points? I like to keep unique characters at a high cost to reduce the temptation of taking more than one for every game.

What did you think of the Khorne Characters? Or would I be better off not knowing?  :laugh:

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 Post subject: Chaos Special Characters
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:59 am 
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I thought Arihman was pretty decent.  The disc makes him a bit vulnerable if he decides to get into CC but I guess that's not that likely.  

Not so sure about the Khorne guys.  I assume they are infantry class?  Without HQ I'm just going to shoot them and get a juicy 3 VPs for killing 1 infantry stand.  CAF of 10 + a re-roll on an infantry stand is pretty out there, but if anything Scyrak is  OTT though with a CAF of 8 + 3D6....he can kill a Warhound titan! These guys are as badass as a Bloodthirster.  Maybe a bit too much?

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 Post subject: Chaos Special Characters
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:45 am 
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Hey Zap,

Not so sure about the Khorne guys.  I assume they are infantry class?  Without HQ I'm just going to shoot them and get a juicy 3 VPs for killing 1 infantry stand.

Argh, I messed up again. I forgot to mention in the stats that they are infantry and being characters they are both treated as HQ's. They do still tend to be a fire magnet but that can't be helped. You can still protect them by providing an escort for them. I weighed up their abilities/cost against the Eldar Phoenix Lords who were all originally 250 points in the Journal magazine.
Jin Zar had a Caf of +10 (it actually states +18 Caf in my copy but I'm guessing that's a miss print... or so the other players told me.) :sigh:

but if anything Scyrak is  OTT though with a CAF of 8 + 3D6....he can kill a Warhound titan! These guys are as badass as a Bloodthirster.
I got Scyrak from an excellent short story in an Inferno magazine years ago and the guy IS unstoppable. He just slowly regenerates back to life. The point I tried to make is that these guys are becoming Khorne Daemons. Perhaps Champion is a mistake and Daemon Prince is a better description. As for taking on a Warhound... it's harder than it sounds. You have the Titans Point defence and First Fire to survive and that's if you managed to engage the thing as an infantry stand can't pin it in Close Combat. Wouldn't a unit of Juggers have a better chance of taking out the same warhound?.. and they cost less.

I remember first using Scyrak against the Eldar and I ending up getting him fried in turn two. They may be powerful but they are still only infantry so easy prey to most things if you don't take care. Of course in a Campaign he gets up ready for the next fight.

However, if OTT what do you sugest?

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 Post subject: Chaos Special Characters
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:13 am 
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I did not talked about Khorne Characters because, I wanted to know I would react with my remarks on Ahriman ;)


About the cost, you do not need to increase it in order to limit the use of special characters. They are Unique Special cards, so they are limited by this constraint and when I choose my army, it's not easy to choose between a character or take a heavy support like a titan. For Khornite characters, they could be choosen as special card for the World Eaters company card. Kharn could reach the berserker detachment of the company ;)

I think that creating a character by just applying his 40K stats in NetEpic is not he best way. 40K stats should be used to find the orientation of the character and his special hability for NetEpic. Characters are not used the same in 40K and NetEpic.




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 Post subject: Chaos Special Characters
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:05 pm 
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Hi scream,

I did not talked about Khorne Characters because, I wanted to know I would react with my remarks on Ahriman ;)

No worries, if I didn't want comments I wouldn't have posted. All feedback is helpful and I'm actually enjoying this. It means I can tweak things to make them better and more playable for others and not just for me.


As to cost... What would you prefer...
If they both came complete with as a special card accompanied with a detachment of Khorne Berserkers for 250 points?
OR
If they were somehow reduced in effect and the price dropped to 150 points?

I like the comment about the World Eaters Legion card as then you would usually only be able to take one or the other character so I guess that gets included.  :agree:

40K stuff can be tricky to adapt down to Epic but you must admit it is the source of most if not all of the background fluff. When doing these things I notice that sometimes I lose site of the goal (NetEpic Rules) and get carried away. That means these sort of comments are vital to the process.

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 Post subject: Chaos Special Characters
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:14 pm 
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I agree that 40K fluff is the source for all the background of our units.

About stats, Khorne characters could a single unit card like actual Daemon Prince of Khorne units. Actually, Daemon Princes are Special card with a single stand and cost 150 points. If you consider that your characters have better abilities than standard Daemon princes, 200 points for each could do the job.

- 200 points
- Special Unique Card must be attached to a Khorne company card

This would be enough restrictive ;)




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 Post subject: Chaos Special Characters
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:23 pm 
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That sounds fine scream. I'll wait in case Zap or any others want to add anything but that all sounds reasonable to me. I keep forgetting about the Daemon Princes. Those dude's weren't around when I first done these characters.

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 Post subject: Chaos Special Characters
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:09 pm 
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I'll be away for a week so will re-attach the changes when I get back after I have read through any comments left here.

Cheers...

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 Post subject: Chaos Special Characters
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:45 am 
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Quote: (Warhead @ 22 Jul. 2008, 06:45 )

Hey Zap,

Not so sure about the Khorne guys.  I assume they are infantry class?  Without HQ I'm just going to shoot them and get a juicy 3 VPs for killing 1 infantry stand.

Argh, I messed up again. I forgot to mention in the stats that they are infantry and being characters they are both treated as HQ's. They do still tend to be a fire magnet but that can't be helped. You can still protect them by providing an escort for them. I weighed up their abilities/cost against the Eldar Phoenix Lords who were all originally 250 points in the Journal magazine.
Jin Zar had a Caf of +10 (it actually states +18 Caf in my copy but I'm guessing that's a miss print... or so the other players told me.) :sigh:

but if anything Scyrak is  OTT though with a CAF of 8 + 3D6....he can kill a Warhound titan! These guys are as badass as a Bloodthirster.

I got Scyrak from an excellent short story in an Inferno magazine years ago and the guy IS unstoppable. He just slowly regenerates back to life. The point I tried to make is that these guys are becoming Khorne Daemons. Perhaps Champion is a mistake and Daemon Prince is a better description. As for taking on a Warhound... it's harder than it sounds. You have the Titans Point defence and First Fire to survive and that's if you managed to engage the thing as an infantry stand can't pin it in Close Combat. Wouldn't a unit of Juggers have a better chance of taking out the same warhound?.. and they cost less.

I remember first using Scyrak against the Eldar and I ending up getting him fried in turn two. They may be powerful but they are still only infantry so easy prey to most things if you don't take care. Of course in a Campaign he gets up ready for the next fight.

However, if OTT what do you sugest?
As Scream mentions, we really don't do Special Characters in NetEpic (much as I miss Gazkull), but nothing to stop you making some for your own entertainment  :grin:   .

As you say, it wouldn't actually be that easy to kill a Warhound...I was speaking more metaphorically than actually. As to the unit of Juggers, I don't think they'd do much good as remember they wont get any bonus dice so each one will be 5+2d6 vs 8+2d6, although of course they still get to fight even if they get killed by the 3+ PD rolls I guess.  I don't really have a prob with the unit at the cost...seems reasonably pointed.  Just the combo of CAF8 + 3d6 and the 45cm move and "Fear" and Regen seemed a little much to me....particularly rolled into one man-sized unit   :oh:




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 Post subject: Chaos Special Characters
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:50 pm 
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Ok, I've tided up some of the rules in the Khorne Characters after considering some of the comments above. I hope I took most opinions into account.

I kept some of the original stats and although the costs may not suit some people they can be modified by the individual using them to suit what they believe is fair for their own games. So no big deal.

I tried take on board the point made about Daemon Princes and the costs but I'm sorry to say I am not a big fan of the Daemon Princes and think they are a bit weak. (My own opinion. I'm sure there are people who like them and that's ok. I'm just not one of them.) I would prefer to have a list of Chaos Characters to chose from as there are for Space Marines in the options list.

Again all comments are welcome and appreciated.




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 Post subject: Chaos Special Characters
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:21 am 
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Also updated Ahriman.

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