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Activation of units |
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Pettan
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Post subject: Activation of units  Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:19 pm |
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Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:28 am
Posts: 310
Location: Sweden
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Hello folks.
When activating a eldar defender detachment (3 falcons & 6 troop stands) can you only move either the falcons or stands or both at the same time?
They can have different orders but are the same detachment. But according to the rules they still have to be activated at the same time...
The problem is that it might be better to buy the troops as a guardian detachment and a falcon detachment so that they count as two units for activation. This will make the enemy show one more of his hidden orders.
As the game works now its like a cat and mouse game of who can show his orders last and then gain an advantage...
An example of what can happen. The Orc player wins initiative and moves some of his battlewagons closer to a house. Since his troops inside are not of the same detachment that cannot enter yet.
His opponent plays marines and he chooses to move a tactical detachment closer to the same house. He then exits with his marines and enters the house while grinning at the orc.
What do you folks think of this? Perhaps I have misunderstood the rules but im not sure that I like my interpretation.
//Pete
_________________
"Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". " Major General Chesty Puller, USMC
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Dwarf Supreme
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Post subject: Activation of units Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:11 pm |
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Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:45 pm
Posts: 11149
Location: Canton, CT, USA
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Assuming you're not using the optional rule, transports are treated as part of the same detachment as the infantry. So, you need to activate them all at once, move them all together and maintain coherency as normal. In your example, the Falcons are in the same detachment as the Guardians. Thus, they are given one order counter and they must all be moved together and maintain unit coherency at the end of their move.
As for the Orks, Battlewagons typically are added to formation to create a bigger mob. Just like the Falcons, they too would be part of the same formation as the Boyz and could not be given separate orders, moved separately, etc.
Does that help?
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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart
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Pettan
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Post subject: Activation of units Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:57 pm |
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Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:28 am
Posts: 310
Location: Sweden
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Sorry, I am using the optional rule and my example might be abit messy, I will try to clear it up (slightly).
And in many orc clans you buy battlewagons seperate as transports, dont the battlewagons become their own mob then. But this is not what I was aiming at. I will make another example that circumvents the issue of using using the optional rule or not.
Case 1: Transports are bought as a own card. A Falcon detachment, they are used for transports for a guardian detachment. So, they are two different detachments although they are transport and troop stands. (they dont need to keep 6cm rule either, right?)
Case2: Defender Detachment are bought consisting of the same troops as in case 1. They are activated at the same time eventhough they have may very well have different orders. They have to keep the 6cm rule...
/P-man
_________________
"Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". " Major General Chesty Puller, USMC
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primarch
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Post subject: Activation of units Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:53 pm |
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
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Hi!
You have the correct interpretation on both your case examples.
Primarch
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Pettan
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Post subject: Activation of units Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:14 pm |
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Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:28 am
Posts: 310
Location: Sweden
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But, what if you use the optional rule about Optional Rule: Transports are Separate Detachments and your transports and infantry are away, perhaps far away from eachother would they still have to be activated at the same time.
Shouldnt the system of activation work better if only you activated the units that one specific order counter would activate. (OR that everyone would activate 2 orders/each.)
If we would use that then armies with no/less transports on thier detachment/company cards would not be penalized further (like my example with the orcs trying to enter a building) and players wouldnt buy seperate transports in an attempt to just work around the rule of "activating" a whole detachment.
Another example might be an eldar player wanting some guardians and falcons buying the falcons as a company card and the guardians as a company card so that he gets 6 detachments instead of 3. I think this is kinda silly.
In the end, just a feeling ive had for some time that I thought Id share. Feel free to blow it to smitherins.
/Peter - signing off and next time buying a guardian host and a falcon host.
_________________
"Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". " Major General Chesty Puller, USMC
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zap123
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Post subject: Activation of units Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:17 am |
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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:47 am
Posts: 3065
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Yeah, but if you buy a Falcon Company and a Guardian Company you are trading off the extra flexibility/more detachments against higher cost and lower breakpoints. I generally take the Defender host for the durability, but against some armies I split the purchase as I desperately need the higher detachment counts. This seems perfectly reasonable to me.
You have also highlighted the complications of using some optional rules 
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Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy
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