Yup, what he said  

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Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

Off course, if the flier does not have to land to disembark transported troops, it does not have to take off

Thanks mates

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Fair players live longer
Epic40k.fr Techpriest

Just a thought:

Optional Rule: Defensive Fire
One downside noted with these rules is the vulnerability of Bomber types and Floaters to enemy Fighters.  While this probably reflects reality somewhat, it is still disheartening to see your Manta knocked out of the sky by Ork Fighta Bombas.  To represent gun turrets and other defensive aids, some aircraft types are granted a PD rating.  This PD may only be used against enemy aircraft in close combat with the Bomber.  The PD works like a normal vehicle system, hitting on a 6+ with 0 TSM.

Unless already noted in the units primary listing, this is the PD rating of Flyers and Floaters:

Marauder - PD(2)
Marauder Destroyer - PD(1)
Thunderhawk - PD(1)
Doom Lord - PD(2)
Dread Claw - PD(1)
Silver Towers - PD(3)
Hell Talon - PD(2)
Phoenix - PD(2)
Vampire - PD(2)
Spectre - PD(2)
Overlord Airship - PD(4)
Bombas - PD(2)
Blasta Bomba - PD(4)
Orca - PD(4)
Moray - PD(10)
Manta - PD(12)

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Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

The only thing I know is that if you'd make a tournament with the flyer rules as is, tzeentch would own it... flyers needs to be easier to hit, 1st of all ALL should be able to hit them, albait with some -x tohit perhaps, that atleast would make all armies capable of hitting them!

That's why the alternate flying rule was created

Anything with a turreted weapon or a 360° firing arc can shoot at a flier (with a -1 to hit penalty).

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Fair players live longer
Epic40k.fr Techpriest

But shooting with PD against a flier will involve a -1 to-shoot-at-flier penalty ?

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Fair players live longer
Epic40k.fr Techpriest

PD works like normal but since both target and firing unit are both flyers then the to hit mod could be cancelled out. Describe it as the flyers are built specifically for this type of engagement with other flyers... must say this is very similar to something I had tried to do.

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

The PD "Works exactly like a vehicle system" and "hits on a 6+"  

Should I add this optional rule (optional rule on optional rules   ), and are those ratings ok?

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Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

mmmmm..... Will this involve a cost change on flying transport that could not fire when landed ? For example the eldar Vampyre hadn't any PD, when landed, it could not shot at anything.

If you come to change the amended flying rules, I have some propositions :

- changing altitude should cost a part of movement (fixes or variable) ?
- CAF does not represent anything for a flier, could not this value be used for something else for flier dogfights ?

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Fair players live longer
Epic40k.fr Techpriest

I didn't foresee the need to adjust points or anything.  I can't see it being a huge mechanic (except maybe for the Tau praetorian/flyers).  It will still be a better idea to use your own fighters or AA to protect your bombers....this just gives them some chance for self defense.


- "point of movement" = what?
- CAF is currently used for Dogfights, and I guess for a landed transport.  I'm not sure what you're proposing.

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Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

PD for flyers should be per TURRET only IMO. The Dogfighting abilities of the fighters are factored into the units Caf IMO. So as far as the Bombers go just look at the original models and count the turrets ONLY. That gives the number of PD per unit. The New Eldar models do not have turrets but are better craft so bump the Caf so they can dog fight as it should be.

The Landed Transports should get to use their turrets so should get PD. They shouldn't be able to use their main weapons though. (Thunder Hawk gets 4x PD (2xHeavy Bolters near the front and one on each wing) but no missiles or Battlecannon when landed).

I like the notion of the move cost for altitude... until I think of Silver Towers... Always moves 20cm, even -5cm is prohibitive and arguably goes against the ALWAYS description too. (of course you could just start at high altitude getting past that one, I guess).

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

I kinda went off the number of apparent turrets where possible, but I figured advanced tech races like Eldar might just use metal storm packs and Tau might use suicide drones....or stuff.  Happy to tweak ratings.

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Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

Warp Palace?..

Tweek away my good sir.

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

Warp Palace already has PD(5) in the Chaos Army book stats table so I didn't re-list it.  It was the only Flyer/Floater I found with a pre-existing rating.

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Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

...Ahhh, you must have me confused with another Warhead... if you expected me to have looked that up before posting.    

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]