Yeah, the days of kick ass 50 point T/Hawks...  sigh! *pauses for nostalgia moment* We all knew it was wrong but I still bought 20 of them none the less.

Units on First Fire could shoot down Thunder Hawks and Deathstrikes... not easily but they could do it. If you could find a way to avoid those First Fire units you were untouchable.


EDIT: AA units that fire on landing air transporters also cause them to make a Morale roll (if they survive) or they scatter 2D6cm while attempting to avoid flak. Game of chicken with an AckAck gun, anyone?.. (maybe a roll of 1 is always a fail and an automatic refusal to land?)

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Interceptor seems really complicated and I'm not sure it will solve our problem.

Problems about flyers:
- only AA are effective against them
- flyers can't protect from other flyers
- some units are really strong against them (tempest for example are great as AA)


Some flyers are cheap and they become a real pain for opponents:

- a Thunderhaw costs 100 points
- an hydra battery costs 300 points

if my hydra try to destroy the landing TH before it lands, I'll have 9 dices at 6+ (and about 11% chances to destroy the TH before it lands) and they cost 3X more than the vampyre.

IG will have a hard time investing in AA has they are really expensive.

Question: does a player really used the flyer CAF lastly ?

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Scream, you get 12 Attack Dice with the Hydra. Considering its 100cm range, its one of the better AA weapons in the game. (And, since AA weapons can shoot at Titans w/o penalty, they are never a waste. Also, IG has one more AA weapon, which is quite cheap and perfect for guarding your artillery company (scorpion, for PDF Zulu).

All in all, IG is one of the better armies when it comes to fight off flyers.

Best is Eldar, of course, with their Firestorm.

Although most would disagree, even Orcs are pretty good, since the doomdiver has unlimited range, which has a huge psychological impact (at least on me :-) )

Worst on I know is the Marine AA, it has neither the range (75cm) nor the kaboom (tsm -1) to do much harm) Last time vs. orcs I took 2 of them and a cerebus AA for my reaver. I shot down one orc flyer in 3 turn game, 5000 points...

Sometimes I think that Epic 40k, although a crappy game all in all, had it right with the flyers. I played it only twice, but I vaguely remember, that there was an extra flying phase and every player had an airport from which they would come into the game, refill or something.
anybody remembers how this worked?


edit:

no, I never use CAF, I would love to, but it is too risky. We play with the optional rule, that initiative lets you move last with one unit. So, if I lose on the initiative roll, my charging flyer is useless. I think being able to pin flyers would be fine, I mean how should a Thunderhawk make a landing maneuver with 2 nightwings on its tail?

Yup, it's rather clunky... dunno' if it helps but it is another option in the defence against flyers. Perhaps it can be streamlined... with an axe.  

!300! points for Hydra's!.. increase cost and the effectiveness of flyers but is there an increase to the Hydra's abilities with the Snap Fire/Flyer etc rules?.. ...must go to my happy place, must not cause trouble so soon after the last trouble... Juffo Wup slap still on standby.  

As in WWII air power was highly effective... why no dedicated Flak Companies for IG?

As an example, I have used a cheap AA company for my PDF. 2x Scorpion/Zulu AA Batteries and one Hydra Battery all immobile gun platforms all for 450 points... with Command HQ. I also play that AA units CAN engage ground units without modifier but it must be declared at the beginning of the turn... but I understand the reasoning behind the -2 modifier used against AA units targeting ground forces.

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By sanjuro | Posted on 14 Mar. 2009, 14:46
Sometimes I think that Epic 40k, although a crappy game all in all, had it right with the flyers. I played it only twice, but I vaguely remember, that there was an extra flying phase and every player had an airport from which they would come into the game, refill or something.
anybody remembers how this worked?

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The "called in" airpower was tried in one version of NetEpic.  Probably the closest to how it works in real life today, but it was just too far removed from the original for most to swallow.

As Sanjuro posted, the Hydras are pretty awesome weapons and fully worth the points IMO.  People also forgot the Squat Thunderfire with its 125cm shot!  Some armies did get dudded a little in the AA stakes, but usually they have ok Interceptors.  Marines to me seem to a little less vulnerable that some armies because they dont have large, single units.  They also get the T-Bolt option.

I think all things considered, perhaps we remove the option of Flying High for a transport with FF orders and just go with that.  Seem ok as a compromise?  

People can always make the choice to mix NetEpic and AI for perfect flyer rules  

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Sounds Ok for me.

We discussed few monthes ago about removing the "shoot the thin part" for fliers that are not at high altitude ? Will it be removed too ?

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Quote: (zap123 @ 15 Mar. 2009, 02:08 )

I think all things considered, perhaps we remove the option of Flying High for a transport with FF orders and just go with that.  Seem ok as a compromise?

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I think it was in the discussion about the alternative flying rules (maybe 1 or 2 years old). I notices that at low altitude, flyers, were ~skycrapers high etc... As a titan is also skycraper high and it do not benefit from the shoot the thin part, I proposed to remove the "shoot the thin part" to flyers that are not at high altitude

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I'm finding that catching up on required reading on the threads is a slow process. Sorry I missed it.

Edit: Link, anyone?

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Yeah, removing the -25cm for transports sounds fine.

And axing "shoot the thin part" as well, since most flyers have quite good tsm.

btw, did someone look into the orc flyer confusion I posted in the errata thread? there are different tsm for them in the description and in the units list.

cheers sanjuro

Funny enough, I read that one yesterday for the first time but I hadn't the time to reply just then. I've looked at the Ork rules on the Wiki, I take it they are the most recent and the problem is still there. I notice that all the other Kustom Kannon are -2TSM... including the original Kustom Kannon on the Mekboy Dragsta so I'm leaning towards that... To me it seems it should be a constant stat of all Kustom Kannon.

Just remember, like you I am only one player so maybe wait for the others to answer with their views too.

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Yeah, thanx for pointing it out.

I am inclined toward correcting the description so it matches the stats rather than the other way around.  I know Ork F-Bombas aren't the scariest unit, but three of them each getting an average of 5 shots at -3 would scare Reaver titans!  Fly high, zip around behind the titan, 15 shots at 5+ = 5 hits...no shields, unsaveable hit to the Reactor.....50% chance of a dead Reaver!  Even at a base -1 the same scenario pans out, except the Reaver gets to try a 6+ save.  

Anyone want to argue strongly for a different plan?

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A question:

can a flying transport can land and take off in the same turn ?

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My understanding is that no they can't but if the troops were say Jump Pack Troops (Elysian IG) then they could jump from the transport without the need for it to land... this would simulate the kind of hot dust off we see Air Cav perform today.

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