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psychic head variant...
darkangel
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:38 pm 
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(Dwarf Supreme @ Oct. 12 2007,14:27)
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I'm still not sure why you think a Psy save would protect against warp and vortex missiles. They're physical attacks, not ethereal.

i think now i understand nothing any more!

is it right, that a warlock titan and bio-titan has a psy save against a warp or vortex attack?

if so, then i mean THAT psy save, which the custodian head should have too.
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scream
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:45 pm 
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(darkangel @ Oct. 12 2007,15:38)
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is it right, that a warlock titan and bio-titan has a psy save against a warp or vortex attack?

i don't think so...no psy saves for warp/vortex missiles even for warlock or tyranids titans...unless noted somewhere but I do not remember having read this somewhere...

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darkangel
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:56 pm 
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(scream @ Oct. 12 2007,14:45)
QUOTE

(darkangel @ Oct. 12 2007,15:38)
QUOTE
is it right, that a warlock titan and bio-titan has a psy save against a warp or vortex attack?

i don't think so...no psy saves for warp/vortex missiles even for warlock or tyranids titans...unless noted somewhere but I do not remember having read this somewhere...

i can find the following sentence on page 11 in the adeptus mechanicus book due to warp and vortex missles:

"Due to the nature of the energy involved the vortex is an ethereal psychic attack, and models who make
their Psychic Save are moved to the edge of the template. Psychic Saves due to functional shields are not allowed since this weapon destroys the shield before they can be of help."

so in my view a model with a psy save can save but models with just a psy shield save do not. i am wrong?
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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:04 pm 
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I stand corrected. I just checked the rules. I quote:

Vortex missile: Due to the nature of the energy involved the vortex is an ethereal psychic attack, and models who make their Psychic Save  are moved to the edge of the template. Psychic Saves due to functional shields are not allowed since this weapon destroys the shield before they can be of any help.

Warp Missile: A Warp Missile, although an explosive device, is powered by warp energy and is an ethereal psychic attack. Models who make their Psychic Save are unaffected. Psychic Saves due to functional shields are not allowed since this weapon destroys the shield before they can be of any help.

I think the wording for the Warp Missile needs to be changed to say that shields don't help, not because they are destroyed, but rather they are bypassed.

Also, note that the only Eldar Titan that has a psychic save is the Warlock.

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darkangel
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:05 pm 
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(scream @ Oct. 12 2007,14:45)
QUOTE

(darkangel @ Oct. 12 2007,15:38)
QUOTE
is it right, that a warlock titan and bio-titan has a psy save against a warp or vortex attack?

i don't think so...no psy saves for warp/vortex missiles even for warlock or tyranids titans...unless noted somewhere but I do not remember having read this somewhere...

core rules page 27:

"...Psychic Saves are only useful against Ethereal psychic attacks..."

and a warp and vortex missle is a ethereal psychic attack...see page 11 adeptus mechanicus:"...A Warp Missile, although an explosive device, is powered by warp energy and is an ethereal psychic attack...."

so i think you are wrong! :D
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darkangel
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:08 pm 
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(Dwarf Supreme @ Oct. 12 2007,15:04)
QUOTE
I stand corrected. I just checked the rules. I quote:

Vortex missile: Due to the nature of the energy involved the vortex is an ethereal psychic attack, and models who make their Psychic Save ?are moved to the edge of the template. Psychic Saves due to functional shields are not allowed since this weapon destroys the shield before they can be of any help.

Warp Missile: A Warp Missile, although an explosive device, is powered by warp energy and is an ethereal psychic attack. Models who make their Psychic Save are unaffected. Psychic Saves due to functional shields are not allowed since this weapon destroys the shield before they can be of any help.

I think the wording for the Warp Missile needs to be changed to say that shields don't help, not because they are destroyed, but rather they are bypassed.

Also, note that the only Eldar Titan that has a psychic save is the Warlock.

you are right...warlock and bio-titan has a psy save...so again back to the starting topic...

a head variant or better modify the custodion head with a psy save of 5+ and keep the cost and/or increase te cost to 75 with a psy save of 4+

let us discuss that a think about an offical way...
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darkangel
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:11 pm 
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(Dwarf Supreme @ Oct. 12 2007,15:04)
QUOTE
I think the wording for the Warp Missile needs to be changed to say that shields don't help, not because they are destroyed, but rather they are bypassed.

you are right...i meantioned that a tie before and i thought that the new version is corrected...but it is not!

fact is, shields are not destroyed, they are bypassed...
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zap123
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:13 am 
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It was fixed somewhere....lets hope it was in the last version....I'm getting confused now :)

In Summary:  Warp and Vortex are Etherial so can be saved against using Psychic save.  However, both have special rules that prevent the Psychic save granted by active Void Shields being used.  If the Void Shield owner had some other form of Psychic save (eg modified Custodian head) they'd get the save.

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darkangel
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:57 am 
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(zap123 @ Oct. 13 2007,00:13)
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sorry zap, i have compared the new and old army book of adeptus mechanicus. unfortunately the shields are still destroyed and not bypassed. this need to be corrected.

so after we have cleaned the confusing ethereal or not and/or save or not situation, back to the custodian...

a)
same cost but an additional psy save of 5+ ?

b)
rise the cost to 65, 70, 75 with a psy save of 4+ ?

suggestions?
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zap123
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:31 am 
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I haven't been able to put up the final version .PDFs yet, so don't dispair yet.

I have sent off all the books, so anything else will need to be caught in the Gold draft versions I guess.

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