Sorry, the dangers of cut & paste! I forgot how much trouble the "MF" bomb caused previously.




I agree with level loss.
If the whole Titan goes up with the crew in it, that's the end of the road for that Titan and XP lost, and the player will be back to starting with a "rookie" Titan.
If the Titan is destroyed but the crew escape, all Titan upgrades are lost and the XP drops the relevant number of levels as Primarch indicated above.
But what if the crew are killed and the Titan remains intact?
I'd say its the same deal except the opposite applies, a new crew is drafted in so all crew skills are lost but all Titan upgrades remain. The Titan should drop the relevant number of levels...

_________________
Clickable links for more Epic goodness:

Life of Die Channel including Epic Podcasts and Battle Reports

Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules

Hi!

Interesting point, I had not thought the crew could die and the titan survive. That can totally happen with the new hit location templates.

I would agree that XP loss (depending on what you lose) make more sense in a "story/background" way.

We'll wait and see what others think.

Primarch

I just realized that I forgot to put in a recommendation. I'd also prefer the level/XP loss version.

_________________
Net Epic Coordinator

I agree. I can see players wanting to cherry pick which optional rules they want to use and not use.

_________________
"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

Hi Primarch,

I finally read up on the Chaos rewards, great ideas as usual! That said, there are two areas where I have some reservations...

The Tzeentch Ray of Change: I know this has been modified not to effect Knights, but what about superheavies? It seems a bit extreme that they should be affected as well, maybe exclude these also? My other feeling about the ray is that while replacing infantry with a pink horror is completely appropriate, I don't feel the same about horrors replacing vehicles. Given that Tzeentch don't really have equivalent vehicles (this would be easy if it was Khorne), I don't know what the solution is. What if it was limited to effecting infantry only, would this make it too weak a reward? Maybe change the weapon for it to fire two burst templates if it did only effect infantry?

Essence of Chaos: I'm not keen on this because it essentially gives the Titan two upgrades (assuming increased ammo feed is still being cancelled) for free. While this is in keeping with giving Chaos Titans a highly beefed up flavour, it could distort which honours are chosen by the Chaos player as they may wish to avoid taking increased shielding and turbo weapons if they think they will get them for free later on. When you consider that this is very unlikely (because it will be incredibly difficult to rack up that much XP), Chaos players may end up missing out because they never get to try these upgrades.
I think we'd have to come up with a few new skills and/or upgrades which can only be accessed by receiving this reward, or instead we may have to think up something completely different.

Anyway, that's all the whinging done, like I say, I really enjoyed the rules in general!

_________________
Clickable links for more Epic goodness:

Life of Die Channel including Epic Podcasts and Battle Reports

Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules

Good thought on Essence of Chaos. Perhaps with that slot, instead of granting two 'normal' upgrades, it should instead give a unique ability based on the Chaos Power followed by the Titan in question. The exact power(s) would have to be worked out by the player and agreed on by the DM if there is one, or by all involved players. It could be a standard ability (or two) from any other racial list (aside from Imperial that is), but should be something unique. Look at the Banelord, Bubonis and Skylok special Titans for inspiration. Pretty much anything short of Daemonhood should be allowed though. Think of this slot as being able to customize your titan to your power and the campaign.

Also a good thought on the Ray of Change. However, instead of removing them entirely, perhaps this. Infantry and Cavalry are changed into Horrors, Walkers and Vehicles are changed into Psychic Screamers, and Super Heavies (and possibly adding Knights back in) get changed into a Tzeentch-type Defiler? This keeps the changes as things that are likely to be lower point costs than what is changed from, and adds a little variety. Tzeentch likes variety.

_________________
Net Epic Coordinator

Hi!

I haven't forgotten about the titan stuff. I have a few days off, so I can probably dedicate a few hours to summarizing everything here and the titan rules in general.

Primarch

Look forward to it, but no pressure!

_________________
Clickable links for more Epic goodness:

Life of Die Channel including Epic Podcasts and Battle Reports

Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules

Hi!

Before I jump into Eldar and Ork skills and upgrades a few points.

I like Magnus take on Daemonhood. Basically build your own. The ultimate in customizing.

Another shot at augmented ammo feed....

After much thought I like Magnus' idea. If there are no objections or modifications, I'd go with that.

Anything else before I jump into eldar and Orks?

Primarch

If you mean my idea about 'Essence of Chaos' (the one just before Daemonhood), then that makes sense. Also, thanks.

Since you are going back to having the ammo feed upgrade, I feel we should do something with the Agility one, as that was a good idea. Here we go, lets use that as an alternative on the Reactor upgrade. That is, when you take that upgrade you get two choices: either more Plasma produced per turn (if the campaign is using the Plasma rules), or you gain Agility due to having a more powerful reactor. It's not the cleanest fit I suppose, but it's what I've got at the moment.

_________________
Net Epic Coordinator

Hi!

I'll take it!

Any other points to refine or modify?

Primarch

It's all looking good to me - same applies to the new thread for Titan rules!

_________________
Clickable links for more Epic goodness:

Life of Die Channel including Epic Podcasts and Battle Reports

Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules

Hi!

Good. At some point this week I will post the eldar, Ork and Slann lists and once that is done I will port it over to a PDF document.

I'm planning on fiddling with Adobe Illustrator, so I can make a proper book of that as well.

Primarch

Excellent, look forward to that Primarch!

_________________
Clickable links for more Epic goodness:

Life of Die Channel including Epic Podcasts and Battle Reports

Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules

Hi!

Eldar technology provides warpgates for its crews to escape destruction. The starting roll for "ejecting" is 5+


Eldar Titan Crew Skills

1. Disengage!. The supreme agility of the eldar crew means the titan can not be easily tied down! The titan crew can break from close combat at any moment if it still can move (avoiding it if it wishes). This means a crew with this skill cannot be pinned in close combat. If it decides to engage in close combat the opponent rolls only 1d6 (instead of the normal 2d6) to simulate its agility in avoiding close combat blows.

2. Evade! The titans has the grace and speed to dodge incoming shots with ease. Under the alternate eldar titans move and fire like command units and have a fixed holofield save of 3+ whenever they move AT LEAST THEIR ADVANCE MOVE (if they do not move or move less than their advance move they get no save). A crew with evade is so adept at dodging that the holofield for incoming shots is 2+ and they get a holofield save versus barrages at 5+.

3. Bonesingers. The crew has been trained in the art of singing to the psychoplastic wraithbone of which the titan is made of. Their siren song means they can repair any damage on a roll of 2+ (only fails on a one). Weapons that are totally destroyed ( including those with weapon honor upgrades) can be regrows BETWEEN battles (not during the battle) on a roll of 4+ (50% chance).

4. Pinpoint accuracy. The advanced targeting reticules are enhanced by tapping into the latent psychic abilities of the crew. Re-roll all missed shots once. This only applies to the crew whom control the arm weapons and thus may be taken a maximum of TWO times (once for each arm weapon). Also use one die for hit location scatter rather than the standard two (player picks which die) Wing mounts are part of the titan and don't require crew intervention and thus cannot be selected.

5. Hipshooting. The skill and coordination when moving and fire is sublime to behold! The titan can move and shoot during the MOVEMENT phase. In essence it takes its entire activation on the move. It does not fire in the combat phase since it fired its weapon in the movement phase.

6. Wind of Isha. The crew can coax blinding speed and incredible feats of acrobat out of their titan. Add +10cm to the titans move and it can jump over obstacles that are half its height of lower with no penalty to move. It can jump over higher obstacles but ends its move immediately after clearing an obstacle of this height (no further movement).

Phantom Upgrades

1. Reinforced Wratihbone. All hit location saves gain +1 (maximum save of 0)

2. Enhanced Warp Gate. A stable portal is always open giving the crew excellent chances of escape. Roll 2d6 in stead of 1 for "ejection". Like Imperials you get a +1 bonus to this roll for every honor.

3. Blast of the Pheonix. extra energy is diverted to the main guns. Weapons gain an addition -1 to the save modifier (maximum of -6) and +1 to damage table rolls. May be taken TWICE, one for each arm weapon.

4. War Cry. The titan has psychic amplifiers that send a piercing shriek that stuns the enemy. Enemy units CAF is halved for the purposes of close combat if it possess a hit location template. Enemies within 25cm that do not possess a hit location template (those that do are to tough not to be affected outside close combat), have their CAF reduced to ZERO for that turn.

5. Daemonbane. The titan is made to engage the minions of chaos. The titan receives an additional d6 for close combat versus demonic units and chaos units with hit location templates and ALL attacks (including ranged) count as psychic attacks for purposes of harming demons. Misses again chaos titans and greater demons can be re-rolled once.

6. Augmented Holofied. The holofield protects even when the phantom is not moving by diffracting its image. It also gives a holofield save versus barrages at 6+. it can be combined with evade to make the barrage save 4+.

Thoughts?

Primarch