Forgot to add this:

Ulric, I'm not talking about doubling point costs, just doing some small adjustments on costs to balance the army list. Actually, no other army can concur in building a list with some great artillery, great CC units, great fire power and still have points for heavy support.

_________________
Fair players live longer
Epic40k.fr Techpriest

Hey guys. Giving my 2 cents.

Goliath issue: BP:2 VP:5 Yes. I agree. As with the whole armylist where there are 3 units in the card you dont get a increase in BP and therefore no increase in VP.

Colossus & Biker Guild: Are really good units and might warrant an increase but changing such a fundamental unit in the squat list might change the balance. I think that most armies that are played consists of these units. I know mine are.

The infantry brotherhood is with their 750 pts one example. I never really got why it costs 750 when the seperate cards costs less. Might very well be the sole example in the whole epic universe.

Observation balloons double cost/half unit size: Well I have never played with these so I cant really say. How about changing them so they can only observe for one detachment each round. How can a forward observer observe more than one place as a time? several radios? Multitalking? How about changing all observers to only observing one spot / round but the whole army can listen to the same frequency. You can then barrage the hell out of one spot/ observer.

Every army has gold nuggets and removing/changing these is kinda booring in my opinion.
Exampels of others might be Chaos androids, chaos warband (trolls & minitaurs) Orc Wierdboy tower, gargant bellygun stripping 12 voidshields in one hit against a imperator. or eldar scout titan.

/Peter

_________________
"Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". " Major General Chesty Puller, USMC

Just to mention that in separate detachments, you don't get 2 hearthguards that are included in berserkers & thunderers detachment in the warrior brotherhoods.

About Observation Ballons, 2 for 100 points is easier to modify and keep the FO ability without any other special rule addition.

Thanks for your feedback about the rules Pettan

_________________
Fair players live longer
Epic40k.fr Techpriest

We would actually be better just adding a statement in the rule for the limitation that Guild Brotherhoods and Bike/Trike support cards are included in that limit, special cards are not. (I.e: Bike riding command infantry should be allowed IMO).

Pettan's Observer idea has merit, not just for Squat Obs Balloons but for all the Observers in every race. One detachment can be targeted per Obs stand or unit in the formation that has the Obs special ability. I like this idea. It would stop me slapping down a million templates all over the place because of one Obs unit. I still think it should be 2 Obs Balloons for 100.

Squat Praetorians should be left as is. You've made no headway with this one Scream. Maybe you could make your own house rule... hehe. (Sweeeet).    

Squat Berserkers do tend to suck but you can't have it all ways. Fine I'll drop the squat bike Caf issue but those damn space marines want their badass bikers back, damnit!!! (No way a Bike + sidecar are +3 Caf, THEY should be +2 not the other way around).



Say what!?! Well slap me pink and take me shopping. (As Mal Renolds might say) Da-shiong bao-jah-shr duh la-doo-tze!  

_________________
My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

Have they not?
Was it changed?...Then why?


Hmm berserkers are not the best CC units but dont forget:
Inf. can use any cover, a big advantage over bikes

Oh I completely forgot about this in my last 5 games


You get 3 additional HQ units if you take a brotherhood
which saved my CC ass several times
I won a battle against Marines mainly because I had a lot of CC+6, HQ units



Dont ask there are terrible new pinning rules


Marine bikes should have CC+3
and marines trikes should have cc+4+multi melta

_________________
I am not available for that cognition on my part

The squat re-roll is approximately equivalent to +1 CAF.

(anyone else not like this rule?)

_________________
Uti possidetis, ita possideatis.
May your beer be laid under an enchantment of surpassing excellence for seven years!
An online epic force creator: Armyforge

It's ok, but I find it tends to get forgotten.

_________________
My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

Actually, just checked.  We'd already fixed the Goliaths to:

Goliath Superheavy Artillery Battery 3 Goliath Mega-Cannons 2 2 5 500

I've dropped Observation Balloons down to 2 in a detachment for 100.  Seems much simpler than writing special rules for them.

As for the rest, we clearly need to reduce the cost of the Warrior Brotherhood and Berserker detachments, make the Guild Bikers way more expensive, reduce the cost of the Leviathan but bump up the cost of the Colossus and Cyclops, get rid of the re-roll 1 rules and while we're at it fix Marine bikes and the pinning rules  .  I'll re-read the thread but it doesn't seem like we have either consensus or compelling support for fundamental changes here.

Having said that, I'd entertain the suggestion of increasing detachment costs for the Squat cavalry.  Also, while not wanting to kick up an ants nest, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Overlord.  If anything needs a tweak in the Squat book this would be it in my opinion.

_________________
Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

It clearly states in the NetEpic rules that Zap must clean Warheads kitchen sink. So, how's that coming along?

Close Combat Eldar Titans, don't forget to add those to the list.  

Hurrah for Goliaths. I dimly recall we talked about it but couldn't recall when/where or who with let alone an outcome.

_________________
My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

Overlords are good but can be easily taken down by any weapon. Since they can not land anymore, it's hard to hide them If Overlord cost needed to be adjusted, I'd say no more the 275 points each. reaching 300 points and you're too close to Leviathan cost or any other "newly" introduced ground units. In some games, Overlord are untouchable and in others, they just are like eggs droping from a bird nest.

Zap, did not we discuss at a moment about Shoot The Thin Part only available when flying at high altitude ? Argument was: when flying low, you can hide buying cover, you fly probably at lower altitude than a Warlord Titan or an Imperator, higher weapons on those titans do not benefit the Shoot the Thin  part bonus.

_________________
Fair players live longer
Epic40k.fr Techpriest

the "downside" of using bke/trike detachments are that they are easier to break then the full company, I dont think they warrant an increase in points.

I agree with the observationbaloons, often most you'll have to waste a ton of shots on them to reliably kill em,  so they are pretty darn good, to good for their price I think

YEAH! With a flaming sword. That would be coooool

_________________
"Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". " Major General Chesty Puller, USMC

Yup, that should be fixed in the final edition....pretty certain it's in the pinned errata thread.

_________________
Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

That one really did make me lol  

_________________
Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

_________________
My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]