Now, now, don't blow a gasket. The same can be said of Basilisks, griffons, bombards, manitcores, medusas, whirlwinds and the thousand and one other artillery units out there belonging to other races, what's a artillery company cost? 600 points for 2 basilisk batteries and an bombard battery? All the fire from that company would cut right the heck through an Eldar titan's defenses without slowing a little. And let's review that by the way. Unless you house rule that Eldar titans never lose their holo fields, then we're left with any hit on a wing (and there's plenty of opportunities for that to happen with so many units) pretty much knocking out the Eldar titan's whole defensive mechanism in one hit, and suddenly leaving it immediately open to tank hunters . It's a huge gap that no other race has there to be exploited and people do exploit it. Now, if the rules never allowed eldar holofields to be lost, then that'd be a different story. But with multiple opportunities for a low cost artillery unit to savage an eldar titan to the point of utterly destroying it's sole defense mechanism, then I again state, why shouldn't the Tyranid biotitans have a vulnerability.

Does that mean I condone the overkill that's built in, no. I'd suggest that the mechanism needs adjustment when applied against very large targets like biotitans. It simply doesn't make sense to treat biotitans in the same way you treat much smaller and squishier targets.

That said, why not suggest that it receive a bonus to its save against the doom weaver?
Or offer up a solution that is more palatable?



Again, relax, man. I'm not saying that the rules should be left as is. There's clearly something wrong here, and I for one would like to see the rules evolve a little too. Clearly the insta-kill is broken, but surely the rules could be reworked to make it more fair, yes?

But on that same tac, I think there's something very wrong with the Eldar's titans being so susceptible to artillery barrages. I know that my gaming group altered the eldar titan's shield tech... but that's a house rule for us, and I don't know if anyone here would even be interested hearing about that.

Since artillery template vs holoshields always have to roll for scatter, eldar titans have become stronger than in the past.

Scream, that's always been the rule. It was in one of the QA supplements in one of the magazines, not sure if it was White Dwarf but it was Games Workshop Space Marine.

@Ifurita: You're just not used to my ways yet. I'm the fire-eating hothead around here (or angry inner Russian kid?) but I'm still fairly chill none the less. Most of what I say is tongue in cheek with emphasis on the cheek.

We give Hole Fields and the Chaos Aura of Slaanesh an extra +D6cm to all scatter rolls. It's not great but it means off target area attacks are more likely to miss while hits are just tough luck.

But we are getting off topic. DOOM WEAVERS. I don't have much problem with them as they are but something has to be done about their effect on Bio-Titans.

_________________
My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

Gotcha, though the inner russian comment is coincidental. I was a Russian linquist/intel analyst myself while I was in the USAF. Always found Russians to be very cultured people, but my instructors to have a temper.

Yeah, we used the same rule for a while, but FO's lower that back down, then we houseruled in a new form of defensive field when the orky looking eldar titans were intro'ed(We houseruled them to be new eldar testbed titans meant to combat gaps in their battlefield doctrine. We test ran rules for something called a scatter field. You started the battle with tokens on your titan. when you moved the titan, you got the holo-effect, with 1 token per point of save, but the other tokens were viodshield like effects that could be hit and knocked down. The downside was that as you lost shields, you also lost the ability to have the holo effect max out. Part of this was the fact we had such a large table though, with a larger table the effect of artillery becomes more pronounced on eldar titans (wider and longer table = more turns= more chances to paste titans with artillery) It worked really well for us.

true.
Well, myself the first thing I'd try is this. Require that doomweavers attacking a biotitan must operate together to affect it because it's so much larger a target than the weapon was intended for (This seems pretty obvious to me at least, that th weapon was designed for much smaller targets). Start by requiring that Three doomweavers are needed to even attack a biotitan effectively. Any less than that adds a plus 1 to its save for each missing weaver. This way, that 4+ becomes a 6+ for a single weaver, a 5+ for two, and a 4+ for three operating together, and they do NOT get to intentionally roll individually. All shots during a round from DW's must be counted together for each group of three weavers.

Things in the epic universe that I do not like are rules that to me anyways make so sence at all.

This one that more or less means an autokill on an imperator or the gargant chain that strip away 12 shields in a jiffy. (if a unit had 100 shields that unit would loose 100). Who made up these rules and who is messing up our game? The squat cyclops can kill off 2-3 shields if lucky and that is a very powerful weapon. How can a chain with a connected ball do several times more damage than perhaps the most powerful weapon in the game?!?

Two thumbs up for autokill and autohit. They really rock. *fart*

/Pete

_________________
"Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". " Major General Chesty Puller, USMC

On the issue of Biotitans.

Buy Landraiders and do a calculation of how many points of landraiders (if they all can shoot) it takes to take out an Bio-Titan. I recon that the number U get is sick.

/Pete

_________________
"Take me to the Brig. I want to see the "real Marines". " Major General Chesty Puller, USMC

Don't get me started on Land Raiders again mate! (0_o)

Autokill with regards units with wounds. I would think causing a random number of wounds (x1D6?) instead would perhaps be fairer. At least against Bio-Titans and maybe the Dominatrix. Anything with less than three wounds should remain Autokills. Harridan?

Yeah, lets not get started on the Land Raider topic again

So, from the book:



And:



I've already suggested that reading without assumptions, as the maximum effect for failed armour saves on the Bio Titan is one wound, then the Doomweaver causes 1 wound. It can roll for a critical as normal. If you succeed you roll a D6 for effect. However, I can see why people could assume (remember the assume thingy) otherwise. If people are comfortable with this ruling we have time to add a sentence to the Tyranid book to make it clear and unequivocal. Thoughts?

My recollection is that the Eldar Titan dodge ability was introduced as a special skill one could earn as part of the titan experience system in Titan Legions. It was not a standard feature of Eldar titans until NetEpic.

I have it in print in an Q+A which I got on back order (they photocopied it) from White Dwarf itself, I will try to dig it out and go to all the trouble to photograph it and post it up, well at least that part.

A clearer rule description for Bio-Titan wounds vs. Doom Weavers would be appreciated.

While we are at it, are there any other problematic "weapon vs bio titan" interactions that we should clear up?

Not really weapon VS Bio titan
but weapon VS Titan/Pretorean

Penetrating

e.g. a warpmissile hits an titan
after scatter you hit a weapon
and with 2 dices you sure get a six or higher
which causes a flashback to the reactor
now you have to roll damage for the reactor with 1 dice (normal)
or with the 2 from the warmissile

the same is with penetrating
do I get the Pen. bonus after a flashback?

best regards

ulric

If a Bio-Titan leg is severed, say from the front and the next hit would have hit that front leg, which is gone. Does the hit transfer to the back leg? The rules say no but the back leg would occupy almost the exact same location on the hit template.

Only if you look it exactly in the front.