Hi, after the 3 last battles I played with my squats, here are my thoughts about the squat codex:

1) Squat observation balloons are too cheap: 100 points for 4 observation balloons that can always stay at high altitude and are hard to hit, it's a pain for your opponent. Moreover, with the squat list, you can field some nice artillery hidden in your deployment area that with fire indirectly during all the game. With the standard squat forward observer that cost 100 points for 1 stand + 1 rhino (but can contest objectives), for the same cost, you have 4 observation balloons. Observation balloons cost needs to be increase up to at least 150/175 points and BP 3.

2) Squat bike company: Since 5.2, this company is unique but this restriction is not a real restriction, you can take as many bike detachment as you want for the same cost as if you were taking a company. Buying 7 bikes + 1 guildmaster for 200 points place the cost of bikes ~25 points each for a good +4 CAF.

My proposition about this:
Increasing the cost of bikers (not trikes) up to 250 points and change the bikers company to 650 points (50 points discount for the company instead of 250+250+200) or 700 points. This would increase the victory points when broken to 9 VP and the unique restriction could be removed from the company card.

3) about tarantulas, there are noted: inorganic, robotic
-> does the robotic ability means I need to program them before battle ? That's not indicated in tarantula description. Moreover, if the tarantulas are robotic, why do they have a morale value, do they need a human operator to shoot at targets ?

Thanks for your help. I do not write what I think about the Saim-Hann Wind host rider, I think everybody now know what I think about it  

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Nobody replied but as Warhead is back on the board, maybe we could start talking about squats

Now that all praetorians have templates and so are harder to kill (in SMv2/TL thay did not have templates and were destroyed at first armor save missed), maybe it would be time to increase a little bit their cost ?

- Leviathan cost 350 -> 400 (+50)
- Colossus cost 500 -> 600 points (+100)
- Cyclope cost 450 -> 500 (+50)
- Behemoth cost 450 -> 450 (no change, it's a good as a cyclop and I consider 450 points a correct cost for it)
- Doom Anvil Squadron -> 1600

Hellbore cost could stay at current cost as it's already expensive and not that good for the points.


Another thing, I just see that the 3 Goliath company VP is 6 whereas it costs 475 points and has a BP of 2, like standard cards, a BP of 5 would be appropriated as this company do not benefit from the "stubborn squat rule".

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Christ almighty! You guys call yourselves Epic fans and you left this one hanging, for shame. Thanks Scream. Yup, after reading this I've formed some points to put out there for you.

1) Obs balloons. I would cut the amount you can take to two or even one and keep the cost as is. a) It will be easier to mod/buy and field. b) It's more in keeping with the ground based Obs. c) I hate cost inflating to justify changes. Yuck! I'm cheap and mean with my points.


2) Again with the points increase. I think 700 points is fair for a ton of +4 Caf (Daemons on roller skates!) type units. Couldn't we just put the limit on the number of detachments of Bikes'N'Trikes in a Squat Force that are allowed and include the Bike Brotherhood in that limit. There, fixed. No change just a few extra words.

3) Tarantulas are like the Sentry Guns in Aliens. They'll just fire at stuff on First Fire and Advance Fire. They don't need pre-written orders to do stuff. I suppose to be fair... and it is killing me like you will not believe to say this... but to be fair they should always target the closest enemy units. Uugh, I almost hate you for that one. The only thing wrong with that is how many Tarantulas target how many enemy units. I would say the player gets to decide. It's too messy to do anything else.

There how's that?

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Thanks for your reply WH.

1) I'm OK with you, 2 observation balloons for 100 points should be better.

2) Placing restrictions on quantities of bikes and trikes will be problematic for a codex squat force that's only based on bikes. I think changing the price would be a simpler solution.

3)If tarantulas became fully robotic (and shoot at the nearest target), then they would lost their Morale value. On another way, it would become really easy to make them shoot: Throw a cheap unit in Tarantulas LOS, forcing them snap firing at it and voila, tarantulas have been activated. I think this is the reason why the "shoot at the nearest enemy has been removed".

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Your welcome buddy, man I've missed this more than I knew. Ok...

1) Glad to help.

2) I must admit I forgot the Codex thing. I'd love to get more games with Squats in just to try the new stuff. *sigh* I'll have a look through it all again and if I can find anything I'll be back.

3) I hate the target nearest unit anyway. I just thought it might be fair suggestion. Yes they would be easy to trigger. Just like in Aliens they deliberately tested the guns and depleted the ammo.

IIRC Tarantulas have or had the option of being crew served hence the moral or Fully Robotic, at least that's always been the way I contrived the rules from the original SM2 books. I guess if you put crews on them they pick targets normally but are vulnerable to morale but if you opt for Robotic then... they aren't sentient enough to pick tactically they just shoot stuff. I know, it's not perfect but it makes sense and isn't too messy rules wise.

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2) I see what you were saying now. Sorry, I had gotten the wrong end of the stick. Yeah, I agree 250 points for Guild Bike Squadrons is resonable and the 700 point Bike Company is still well worth while... and you know how hard it is to get me to shift on price increases so you must be right.  

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Thanks for your feedback Warhead

And about praetorians, any idea (even if I propose to change their cost ) ?

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+++++WARNING STUPEFYING WALL OF TEXT!!!++++++

1) Praetorian costs: Nup, not budging here and I'll try and explain why.

Firstly these units have just become interesting and playable again after centuries of being the laughing stock of the Epic universe. I don't think the costs are bad at all. I hate the new cost for a Capital Imperialis now, it's priced right out of the game at 600 points IIRC. No way is an Doom Anvil Squadron worth the same as a Warlord Titan Battlegroup in old money.

Also, these Engines should be readily available to Squats and I don't think the current prices are cheap, they're just right IMHO. The Price increase makes no difference to VP and while you intend to cut down on how many Praetorians you can take you're actually only cutting down on how much support would be taken as I imagine players would still take these Engines. I know I would take as many as I can get.

Some of the Codex Squats (or whatever it's called, I'm not looking it up for a sodding name) already have restrictions on how many Praetorians it can include so their little hearts would break if the cost went up. They're sobbing in their tear soaked beards Scream and it'd be all your fault...  

And finally, the Imperial Guard get Leviathans for 350 point IIRC. Now, who's going to tell the Squats the Imperials are getting stuff cheap where the Squats are paying top dollar? I fear Leviathan sales would be forced to increase cost too and I like my Leviathans in my IG as is.  

2) Goliaths: I agree, every time I've noticed this one it's bugged me but I've never remembered it long enough to bring it up. Yeah, it makes no sense as it is. So changing it to BP 2 and VP 5 would be right IMO.


Wow Scream, not many people joining in here. Obviously there are not a lot of Squat lovers out there. What the hell have they been up to since I've been gone. Too much leg humping I shouldn't wonder. The horny little runts.

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[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

http://www.sciborminiatures.com/i/2010/ ... tue_01.jpg

(Oh, What->
You expect me to ignore a perfect set-up line like that..? )

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"Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm proud to say I have no grasp of it whatsoever." - Baron von Münchausen

Ah-hahaha!

Oh that's from last years Peace Summit. They got the banners wrong. All sorts of weirdo's attended the Gobbling Squats peace talks that year... ew.  

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My head is full of War...

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I'm reading it....just trying to digest it all.  My really initial thoughts (apart from the usual abject horror) Are:

Perhaps changing biker detachment costs might be warranted but I'm loathe to touch the company for both historical reasons and overall army capability reasons.

Tarantulas already have to target closest unit.  Still a bit of a bargain to my mind.  You're right, they don't need a morale value though.

Happy to muck around with Observation Balloons.  If everyone thinks 2 for 100 is ok I'm with you.

Praetorians....hmmm...strictly speaking the Colossus is probably undercosted, but the others seem fine to me (if anything, the Behemoth is overcosted IMO).  Having said that, mucking around with costs on such a fundamental unit is probably going to buggar balance, and Praetorians still have vulnerabilities Titans dont.  I'd need compelling evidence that this was required I think.

Fixing Goliath company is a good one.  Stoopid Goliaths never hit anything anyway  

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I did not find where it's written in the rules that tarantulas have to fire on the closest target. I remember that this was stated in SMv2/TL rules but did not find it in any NetEpic codex (not in Squat or IG 5.2).

Actually, Squats list is one of the best competitive army lists.

Squat bikers are (too) great for the cost:
SM bikes 150 points for 5 , morale 2, break point 3, caf +2
Squat bikes 200 points for 7+1, morale 2 (1 while guildmaster is alive), break point 6, caf +4 (+5 for guildmaster)

SM cost per bike: 30
Squats cost per bike: 25 <- yes, better than SM and cost less

So at least increasing their cost up to 35 points per bike and rounding the detachment to 250 points would balance the bike detachment.

About praetorians, Leviathan are good for the price, they can easily replace an artillery detachment with it's Doomsday cannon and has some nice fire support ar 75cm.

Colossus is probably the best praetorian in squat list. I call it my swiss knife, it can do everything and do it well. First turn, place 4 missiles + 1 doomsday using gyro LoS, followed by a bunch of 4+/-2 hits.

Maybe a little adjustment on Colossus cost is needed. About Behemoth, when used with a Cyclop, it's terrible. Remove enemy shields with your behemoth and last hit with the cyclop Behemoth is not that great but the railgun has a nice range and can hit easily.

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Yes I agree here its the only offensive/CC capability the sqauts have

The pretoreans are good but not overpowered
and the Squats need  them badly
So I am against any new point costs

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I am not available for that cognition on my part

Mwah-hahahaha!!!


Yes! Oh Yes... I've been dying to throw that one back at you guys since you told me it... What? What do you mean that's sad?

The only thing I have to say about the bikes is this. Space Marine Bikes should be +3 Caf.  


Hmm, wait! How about this?..

Squat Guild Biker force: If up to three support detachments of any Squat Bikes are taken they automatically form a Guild Biker Brotherhood. Therefore you can no longer get around the "only so many Guild Biker Brotherhoods per points rule." Would that work?

I still think Screams right about the need for a cost increase on the Support detachment of Bikes though.

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I'm not a fan of this idea, this could result in brotherhoods only consisting of bikes or trikes and this would not solve the problem IMHO.


@Ulric, I agree with you that the BEST squat CC units are trikes/bikes. Squat berserkers are poor CC units (caf +2, even the reroll "1" ability is not that good, it may help but can not concur with a +4 caf). And there's no need to compare (and this time, 4ill compare units within squat army).
- 5 Berserkers: 150 points
- 3 Rhinos: 50 points
Total cost: 200 points for 8 units, 5 caf +2, 3 caf +0

For 200 points, I can get a squat bikes squadron that's just better in quite all cases. So why would I choose squat infantry ? Moreover, my cavalry can not be pinned by infantry whereas my infantry will be pinned by any other enemy.

Actually, in all my last army lists, I take 1 warrior brotherhood + 1 rhino detachment to move the berserker detachment to an objective in middle of the table. I also take one termite detachment to contest far objectives. For 200 points, termite detachment if more interesting that a berserker detachment + rhino detachment. Honestly, if I pick a warrior brotherhood, it's only to get a list with some infantry and a company that's not that good for the cost. It would be better to take another cheap comp and add it some "good for the price" support.

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