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Strike Legion Unit Designer - Progress Thread

 Post subject: Re: Strike Legion Unit Designer - Progress Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:52 am 
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Kealios wrote:
Keep in mind that at least two of the Firing Arcs share the same abbreviation in the books, so you'll need to invent your own (I think it is Fixed Rear and Forward Right, both "FR").



Here are my arcs:
#Long Name,Short Code,MinArc,MaxArc,<total arc, but this is ignored by the app and just used by humans>
Code:
Turret             ,T  ,  0,360,  360
Front              ,F  ,270, 90,  180
Rear               ,R  , 90,270,  180
Right Side         ,RS ,  0,180,  180
Left Side          ,LS ,180,360,  180
Fixed Front        ,FF ,315, 45,   90
Fixed Rear         ,FR ,135,225,   90
Side Left          ,SL , 45,135,   90
Side Right         ,SR ,225,315,   90
Front-Right        ,FR ,  0, 90,   90
Front-Left         ,FL ,270,360,   90
Rear-Right         ,RR , 90,180,   90
Rear-Left          ,RL ,180,270,   90
Extended-Front     ,EF ,225,135,  270
Extended-Rear      ,ER , 45,315,  270
Left-Extended      ,LE ,135, 45,  270
Right-Extended     ,RE ,315,225,  270
Front Oblique Right,FOR,315,135,  180
Front Oblique Left ,FOL,225  45,  180
Rear Oblique Right ,ORR, 45,225,  180
Rear Oblique Left  ,OLL,135,315,  180


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 Post subject: Re: Strike Legion Unit Designer - Progress Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:39 pm 
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Bad_Syntax wrote:
I'll fix it so only sides are shown at some point, instead of Right/Left... I can't think of any historic unit that would have different side armor (Perhaps the Grant due to the side mounted 75?, doubt it tho).

Been a while since I touched the code, my last project got released and I had to spend the last week pushing out little fixes.

Question:
The PART, its cost multiplier of Damge_Die*Range_Band*0.8 "includes the modifier for 90 degree arcs", is it safe to assume that if I didn't include that arc multiplier, it'd just be *0.9?

>>>PART includes the reduction for 80-degree firing arc.

Is there a minimum AOE for artillery? I'd guess 0.5", but it'd be possible I guess to have no AOE.

>>>Minimum AOE is 1".

So AP weapons are built as personnel SAW weapons and simply added to the vehicle, and not Gauss/Disruptor/Laser/Plasma/Particle/Ionetc?

>>>Correct, but the cost is also adjusted for firing arc.

And assuming that, any reason a "Gun Battery/AT" has the AT designator?

>>>Gun batteries are mounted on sea/air/landships only, differentiated as AT or AP. AT batteries are the same as Cannon with different maximum range band/damage die.

And a follow-up, there are AP weapons in the vehicle weapon tables part 7C that seem to mirror those under personnel weapons at 19C, can it be assumed that special rules 19C1 and maybe even 19C2 also apply when those weapons are mounted on vehicles?

>>>No. Use 19G1 SAW entries over 7C if there are any discrepancies in damage die maximums/ranges. 19C refers to team weapons, and range 0 weapons are covered under physical weapons. Not sure there's a need to include bow and arrow or spears as vehicle AP weapons. ;)

And a question on Organic/Hybrid. Hybrid/Mechanical TL's seem to make sense to me, but what about Organic only vehicles? I am guessing that 100% organic vehicles are always built with the personnel rules and not vehicle rules?

>>>>>Correct.

GART says "TL2 sea elements use TL3 weapon limitations", so basically if a unit has sea (or sub? and including sail/physical/etc?) primary (or secondary?) mobility types, at TL2 they would use the maximums for TL3 right?

>>>Correct (including sub/sail/phys, excluding secondary mobility).

Also, often when referring to walker arcs the book says "RF" or "LF", when those are never defined and should probably be "FR" and "FL", respectively. Those arcs are also used on the vehicle firing arcs in the back of book 1... just kinda inconsistent.

>>>>>RF and LF designations should be used.

What is the cost multiplier of the extended 270 degree firing arcs from part 17, page 23? I would guess 95% as 180 degree is 90% and 360 degree 100%.

>>>>271-360: no modifier; 180-270: *.9; 1-179: *.8.

Torpedoes. The speed is set at 15 for 3 turns, but the cost is speed/3. Is speed then variable so any number can be chosen UP to 15? Also, does that affect range, so maybe all torpedo's have a range of 45, and if say 9 speed was chosen instead of 15, its endurance would be 5 turns instead of 3?

>>>See 9A4; cost is (damage die * speed)/3. Speed is variable from 1" to 15" per turn, with 3 turn endurance (not multiplied for endurance when calculating cost). A d8 speed 12 torpedo would be (96/3=)32 points (and moves 12" during 3 consecutive turns).

Also, with torpedoes, they are limited to sea mobility? I happen to know some Air and STOVL units that use them to hunt submarines :)


>>>> Air/STOVL should be OK.


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 Post subject: Re: Strike Legion Unit Designer - Progress Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:12 pm 
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Gun Battery/AT and Cannon have the same damage die and range bands, though the cannon can have optional ammo depletion and is restricted to a single barrel, plus can be unreliable, and over 90 degree arcs. The Gun Battery/AT can use chain/canister shot.

So are Cannons just AP then?

And um, there are bow type weapons or harpoons mounted on vehicles:
Mad Max had some http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/thumb/e/eb/Tdomespeargun2.jpg/500px-Tdomespeargun2.jpg
And the Japanese seem to love them http://www.solarnavigator.net/images/whaling_harpoon_canon_and_harponer.jpg
Or would those be some other weapon type? :)


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 Post subject: Re: Strike Legion Unit Designer - Progress Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:32 pm 
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Bad_Syntax wrote:
Gun Battery/AT and Cannon have the same damage die and range bands, though the cannon can have optional ammo depletion and is restricted to a single barrel, plus can be unreliable, and over 90 degree arcs. The Gun Battery/AT can use chain/canister shot.

So are Cannons just AP then?

>>>>No, cannon are AT weapons (representing modern - WWI through modern - ATG and MBT main weapons); Gun Batteries are AP or AT (smaller caliber/low velocity/represent multiple guns); Cannon are TL2; Gun Batteries are TL1.

And um, there are bow type weapons or harpoons mounted on vehicles:
Mad Max had some http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/thumb/e/eb/Tdomespeargun2.jpg/500px-Tdomespeargun2.jpg
And the Japanese seem to love them http://www.solarnavigator.net/images/whaling_harpoon_canon_and_harponer.jpg
Or would those be some other weapon type? :)


>>>>> And how many of these have a range of 250+ meters or fall outside the categorization of range zero AP weapons?


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 Post subject: Re: Strike Legion Unit Designer - Progress Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:39 pm 
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KaJo wrote:
>>>>> And how many of these have a range of 250+ meters or fall outside the categorization of range zero AP weapons?


None of em, was just making a joke, sorry, its hard to emphasize <joke> without specifying it on forums ;)

So, about that gun battery question?


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 Post subject: Re: Strike Legion Unit Designer - Progress Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:54 pm 
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Answer is embedded in the quoted text of the previous reply.

And, yes, deadpan delivery is trickier via text. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Strike Legion Unit Designer - Progress Thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:27 pm 
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Ok, the gun battery thing is still confusing me. A gun battery is listed as "Gun Battery/AT", so is a "Gun Battery/AP" just an AP weapon created like a SAW then?

Based on the rules, it looks like a canon is just a gun battery that can be a single tub, a better arc, and the possibility of an ammunition depletion number. The damage/range are the same for both weapons. It sounds like gun batteries are like the broadside from a man of war old sailing ship, which may need a shorter range (a few hundred meters) than a 120mm smoothbore with an effective range of 3.5km-5km, but I could be mistaken.

Basically, cannons and gun batteries, based on damage die/range, are both capable of the same damage output, and a dual barrel tank destroyer could use a gun battery and be just as effective as another using a canon.


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 Post subject: Re: Strike Legion Unit Designer - Progress Thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:06 pm 
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AT batteries are pointed as Cannons; AP batteries "are built as Dual- or Quad-mount AP weapons with a d8 maximum Damage die, with each Dual Battery using two damage dice and each Quad-Battery using four Damage dice. Gun Batteries are limited to a 900firing arc, although any arc may be used.

"Chain Shot adds 20 points to the battery for each Damage die, and Canister adds 10 points per Damage die."

The difference between AT batteries and Cannon is in their rules for use, not so much in construction. AP/AT Gun batteries use special rules (see Clockwork Armies, p.10, 2.7), and batteries not mounted on ships (sea/Aether/Landship) always use Limbered movement. While construction stats may be similar, the distinction is necessary.

Also note the rules for using TL1 weapons in a higher TL environment place additional restrictions on TL1 unit capabilities (modified damage die and ranges, lower point values, etc.; see Clockwork Armies, p.4, 2.1), so the TL1 cannon performs very differently when compared to a TL2 cannon with the same stats (so, a WWII Grant platoon could fight against Grant's troops in an alt-history setting, or 23rd Maine could fight against Bantags, for example).


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 Post subject: Re: Strike Legion Unit Designer - Progress Thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:31 pm 
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Ok, I think I got it. I'm thinking weapons will be one of the places I change the most stuff, but luckily its pretty easy to do :)

Can every weapon except a TL1 Gauss and TL2 Laser be rapid fire? (Artillery/Missiles too?)

"Archiac" and all their restrictions in clockwork armies is just TL1 right?

Ack, Rollers... something that wasn't in Skunkwerks :( Hope that doesn't come up much.

A pee-wee nuke munition has TL3 on p44, but the actual warhead TL5+ on p45?

How are antimatter artillery munition costs calculated if their damage can be 2d10 but the weapon was only d12?

What is the TL of a mobile minefield?

Can FASCAM artillery munitions, which place minefields, use Static/Captor/Mobile? If mobile, how is that different than drone munitions with mobile minefields?


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 Post subject: Re: Strike Legion Unit Designer - Progress Thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:27 pm 
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Rapid Fire is limited to direct-fire weapons (No MSL/ART). ART may have only the Dual and Direct Fire traits (Skunk Works, 8C, pp.43-44 for other restrictions).

Yes, Archaic = TL1. Would it be possible to have both point values for archaic units print on the data cards (vs. TL1/vs. TL2+)?

Rollers are very limited in scope (minor difference between them and wheeled), but would be good to include for sake of completeness.

PeeWee = TL5 (edited - apologies).

Other answers shortly. :)

EDIT:

Mobile MF = TL4

FASCAM should be limited to Static/Captor.


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 Post subject: Re: Strike Legion Unit Designer - Progress Thread
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:43 pm 
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Kajo, as much excellent work as you do answering these questions, have you considered adding these responses to the rulebooks for clarification?

I know you have phenominal support for your games, but I will NEVER know/remember/be able to find when needed the questions to the myriad of FAQs that have been asked/answered. I always consider the rulebook as the "go-to" for rules questions. Even a blurb here and there, clarifying the questions and typos that have come up would be massively useful, both for those of us who already own the rulebooks, and for those who may purchase them in the future.

The follow up to this is, Ive seen enough printed wrong in the book, or have seen your answers change some things that surprised me at the time, that if you DONT update the rulebook, I think thats a disservice to yourself and your players.

Hope I am making it clear that I am trying to be encouraging and helpful, and not sardonic and nasty :O)


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 Post subject: Re: Strike Legion Unit Designer - Progress Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:44 am 
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I will be updating the rules and/or putting out errata/FAQ documents, but I do want to wait until all of the construction questions have been aired (and I complete a re-reading of the series) before compiling everything.

At some point there may be a 2nd edition (cleaned up and some items eliminated, some expanded upon), but that is a bit further down the road.

And I do know you're being helpful, not harmful. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Strike Legion Unit Designer - Progress Thread
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:20 pm 
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Been a while since I made any progress. Sorry, just haven't really been in a coding mood and real life didn't give me a large enough chunk of time to do it.

But that all changed this weekend :)

I finished the weapon code, adding very basic save/load functionality. I redid the main form with a new method that got rid of some annoying recursion issues I had. I also implemented psionics.

So, at this point there are a few minor things here and there I have still not implemented. But mostly, there are a lot of little logic bugs. None are hard to do, just annoying. Hopefully I'll work through enough of them today to get an EXE good enough to use and test. I'm going through all the books now adding in units, fixing logic issues as they come up, and will hopefully have most, if not all, of the units implemented and a beta released today.

If I can't be productive enough, hopefully I can get it knocked out this week sometime.


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 Post subject: Re: Strike Legion Unit Designer - Progress Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:27 am 
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Hmmmm, so I try to build a Siggy, page 77 of the v1.21 Strike Legion Main Rulebook, and my costs are totally off. Here is what I get:

90 Hull (Signature 3, Defense 9)
162 Armor (18 total points of Ablative)
189 Move (14" Hover)
160 Comm Disruptor
9 Command Package
180 EW 8
100 Frequency Warfare
90 Shields 4
40 Smoke Mortar (2)
60 Vulcan II
36 Ion Weapon (d6, Turret, Range 6)
36 Laser Weapon (d6, Turret, Range 6)
24 AP Weapon (d4, FF, Range 6)

for 1176 total, divide by 10, I get 118 Points, yet the card shows 144.

What am I doing wrong here?

The Plunderer (next vehicle) has nested encryption, but it has no command package listed which is a requirement.

The Wasp (next vehicle) has a defense of 6, but for a signature 5 vehicle the lowest is 7.

The Scimitar I get:
40 Hull (Signature 5, Defense 7)
66 Armor (19 total points of Basic)
48 Move (12" Tracked)
60 EW 6
30 Shields 3
36 Ion Weapon (d6, Turret, Range 6)
16 Laser Weapon (d4, Turret, Range 4)
296 Total, divide by 10, I get 30 points, yet the card shows 52.


So I move onto the units in Skunk Works, thinking they'd be different, but I get the same sort of issues with the math. I need to add some text logging on the PV calculations so I can just add it for every vehicle and find all the issues, but right now it seems I'm like 50% off, and I'm not sure why.


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 Post subject: Re: Strike Legion Unit Designer - Progress Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:09 am 
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It's partially in the weapons:

weapon cost = damage die x range band x 5; modify by weapon type modifiers and firing arc modifiers.

For the Siggy's laser weapon: d6x6x5 = 180; no modification for laser weapon type or turreted firing arc. Note that this was simplified in SW to damage die x extreme range (in inches) entry, with weapon/arc mods.

Once that's fixed, it'll be easier to figure out if there's anything else amiss. ;)


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