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Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT

 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:26 am 
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GrrArgh wrote:
Stubborn.

Ähmmm.....i think Stubborn is a big disadvantage for all Squats.

First, they are slow...very slow.. they can not get out of the 30 cm away of enemy Formation. For Rally after a Engage Action, they get a +3 modifier.

Second, with 15 cm its hard to escape any Enemy Fire.

Yes, Squats are brave and Stubborn but every Grot shot them with hackdown into pieces... They are sitting Ducks.

If they are so disciplined:

- only one move with max. 15 cm.
- Ignore the Rally modifier +1 for Enemy Units within 30cm. (Or halve it to 15 cm) and/or
- halve the Casaulties for Blastmarker if the Unit ist broken (rounding down)

Or should the Rule Stubborn be a disadvantage?

Yes, it is a disadvantage to the list and I too have lost formations which have not been able to run far enough away from the enemy to then be swept up in secondary engagements/shooting.
Squats do rally on a 1+ which is an advantage and counteracts the +1 modifier for being within 30cm of enemy units which is the one advantage from this rule.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:36 am 
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So I've finally gotten around to looking at a build for this version and think that the following will be a good stress test for the list and all the proposed changes:

Berzerkers (& Hearthguard) (BTS)
+ Berzerkers
+ Leviathan
+ 0-1 Living Ancestor
Berzerkers (& Hearthguard)
+ Leviathan
Overlord
Overlord
Iron Hawk Squadron
Iron Hawk Squadron
Colossus
Cyclops

To fit everything in I have had to drop the Supreme Commander and whilst I would prefer not to rely on the Overlords for my AA protection I think that they are a better fit in this take on the list. So a slow and steady advance on my opponents with lots of shooting and DC to absorb the returning fire. I'm planning on giving this a run out tonight.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:56 am 
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Nachthall wrote:
1. Where are the exo armour troops - totally gone?


Perhaps they are the command stands? I guess Mosc will answer this.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:57 am 
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Markconz wrote:
Nachthall wrote:
1. Where are the exo armour troops - totally gone?


Perhaps they are the command stands? I guess Mosc will answer this.
Warlord Stands 4+ RA with EA+1MW


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:53 pm 
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Yup, Warlord stands. There aren't a lot of them in most collections and Hearthguard are enough of a pain to come up with without having yet another unit that is difficult to generate.

So, they exist.

Another Squat list may see them appear in larger numbers, but for the vanilla Squat list, I thought this would be best for the bulk of players.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:25 am 
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So trying something different out.

Turn 1 on You Tube. If people find this useful then I'll continue uploading the turns and future games.
Turn 2
Turn 3 with more captions
Turn 4 also with captions

Oh and I mucked up the set up and then had some poor dice rolls. Well played by Console Aveninging Angel though to finish me off.

The game showed that I should have bunched up more initially, but the loss of the Overloads to CAA's first activation and retain at the start of turn 2 (Both from Warhounds with Plasma Guns) really sealed the game from my point of view. It did not help that the Cyclops and Colossus had bad games with failed activations here there and everywhere.

The proposed change to the WE CC to 4+ made no difference in this game as I didn't roll any 4s for CC attacks in the game. It was interesting to try a Squat WE heavy list, but with the lack of AA I'll have to add Thunderfire's back into the list and a Supreme Commander to combat my dice rolling.

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Last edited by Tiny-Tim on Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:45 pm 
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It's nice, but I think it needs a bit more text, it's at times unclear what's happening.


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:11 pm 
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Post above has been updated. I'll come back and put more notes on to the first two turns when I have the time (& hopefully remember what is going on).

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:27 pm 
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Thanks that was a lot easier to follow.

I like the idea. It could be useful when playing at tournaments/events were there is a set time. No remembering to take pictures needed and no need to take notes.

How much time does the adding of text (like for the later turns) and cutting the film take? What speed did you play it at?


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:46 pm 
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I used Movie Maker, which is free, and it was a minute or two per note. Play time is x16 with no editting of events, just starting and stopping the camera each turn

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:15 pm 
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Quote:
Yes, it is a disadvantage to the list and I too have lost formations which have not been able to run far enough away from the enemy to then be swept up in secondary engagements/shooting.
Squats do rally on a 1+ which is an advantage and counteracts the +1 modifier for being within 30cm of enemy units which is the one advantage from this rule.


I wonder...

i lose the chance to escape and regroup in safety with a +4 Rally in exchange to stay in front of an enemy army (sitting duck) and rally on +4.

Ok, this is good for Units which are broken by shootings, far away from the frontline, but if the formation is deep in the moshpit the "stubborn" Squats would run away by any reason (lose units by Blastmarkers, weak against assaults).

Its feels not really "Stubborn", its more like..."to small foots to run fast enough"...


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:02 pm 
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I had my first game with the squats two days ago and I have to admit that even though it was my first game with them, it felt in some situations more like an army of insane cripples waiting to be hacked down. I really like the idea behind the stubborn rule, but i guess it needs further massage to fit the charme and idea behind. So I have to agree with GrrArgh in that case.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:24 pm 
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Here is how I would try and describe the attribute in real life.

Imagine you are out in a group. Something happens with another group with both sides getting loud and potentially violent. There are those in the group who can see that the situation is only going to get worse.

In the case where the majority pull back and take their more aggressive companions with them they have made a double withdraw move.

In the case where it is even between those not wanting trouble and those that are the withdraw is generally less and there is more effort to get back into it - Stubborn

In the case where everybody is being aggressive even though they have just been knocked back you could call this Fearless (although more likely drunk would cover most people like this)


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:53 pm 
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Well put. It's this scene http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elc1ntXuWPY at the 0:59 mark. While everyone is still trying to regroup after they got their asses whooped, the dwarf is trying to charge back into certain death.

Although, I do believe that -for simplicity sake- I am probably going to have the stubborn rule be a single withdrawal move. Bikes and Gyros will benefit; all other formations will shrug.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:00 pm 
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Hello !

"The game showed that I should have bunched up more initially, but the loss of the Overloads to CAA's first activation and retain at the start of turn 2 (Both from Warhounds with Plasma Guns) really sealed the game from my point of view"

That is why I try to avoid using overlords in my list(s). Always popped up, no cover and no chance to hide them the are the kick-my-ass-hard-candidates .... and extremely vulnerable to long range weapons .

regards stefan

PS I like the modelss and their weaponary


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