Well, I titled those with tongue-in-cheek. You won't offend me if you click it.
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| Squat Movement: 10cm vs 15cm http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=134&t=22781 |
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| Author: | Moscovian [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Squat Movement: 10cm vs 15cm |
The 1.0 Squat list is up and discussion is ongoing. I would like some specific input on movement. This is a hotly debated item and as much as I would like to discuss other aspects of the list, this one warrants the most attention because it has broad effects on the list. Once this is decided we can move on to issues like the stubborn rule, Super-Heavy movement, and other nitty-gritty details. For anyone new to the topic, the 1.0 list has all infantry moving at 10cm, 5cm less than standard infantry. After discussing this with a core group of playtesters, I decided upon the 10cm move because of several reasons: 1. It had been used in the Dvergatel list (Morgan Vening's baby) with no known issues. 2. It is flavorful. Squats are short and it adds a racial distinction to the list. 3. It encourages a type of play that I think captures the Squat mentality. Move up, shoot, then sit. If assaulted they, hold their own. There have been some playtests by one active group that show this to be problematic. While I haven't been able to duplicate their concerns, that doesn't make them any less valid. Please vote with the most accurate choice, but also feel free to provide an argument for changing the movement or supporting it. Use pictures or illustrations if possible to detail any concerns or lack thereof. |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Squat Movement: 10cm vs 15cm |
These's no option that says "Nobody local wants to play Squats, but 10cm sounds dandy". |
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| Author: | Moscovian [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Squat Movement: 10cm vs 15cm |
Sorry - I forgot to include two options - thanks, E&C! |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Squat Movement: 10cm vs 15cm |
I wouldn't say I think it's utterly ridiculous just that it's not neccessary to make the squats a 'slow' army, guard are slower than slugs on stolichnaya and they still have 15cm base move..... I'm due a bonus soon and will be purchasing some khazari to playtest the squats with, as well as working on my trackless engine |
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| Author: | Moscovian [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Squat Movement: 10cm vs 15cm |
Well, I titled those with tongue-in-cheek. You won't offend me if you click it.
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Squat Movement: 10cm vs 15cm |
Well ... they are shorter (and fatter) than your average human ... they are dwarves after all ...  I can say that being 5'8" and now in my old age, weighing 300lbs ... but I've lifted weights all my life ...
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| Author: | madd0ct0r [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Squat Movement: 10cm vs 15cm |
munches popcorn. |
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| Author: | wargame_insomniac [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Squat Movement: 10cm vs 15cm |
If we start giving racial disadvantages for speed then the next step would be to have racial advantages, leading to Eldar with base speed of 20cm.... |
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| Author: | Dwarf Supreme [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Squat Movement: 10cm vs 15cm |
I haven't played with 10cm yet, but I'm in favor of it. If it does prove to be a problem, I'd be willing to give 12cm a chance. |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Squat Movement: 10cm vs 15cm |
wargame_insomniac wrote: If we start giving racial disadvantages for speed then the next step would be to have racial advantages, leading to Eldar with base speed of 20cm.... in all fairness the EUK nids have a base move of 20cm..... |
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| Author: | Steve54 [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Squat Movement: 10cm vs 15cm |
My preference would be 15cm for 2 reasons - the rules seem to be based on a standard INF move of 15cm, assault+FF ranges, withdrawal when broken etc. If we're making a big thing of them being slow should they have less countercharge? - the standard move for a humanoid is 15cm. Its not how fast they can power walk but their battlefield combat speed. Terminators, Marines, Scouts, guardsmen, ratlings, ogryns, eldar, orks, grots, tau, kroot all 15cm. If we're going down max speed route shouldn't eldar+marines be faster than guardsmen, terminators slower than scouts etc |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Squat Movement: 10cm vs 15cm |
Steve: I'd contest your first point with Ork Big Guns, an Infantry unit that's brilliant, even fairly FF biased (for Orks), and has a 10cm move. IIRC Squats were getting some sort of rule that helps them when withdrawing (saves against hackdowns & auto-destroying at 5cm instead of 15cm?) anyway? I do think 10cm could give a unique feel to the army, and is worth trying. |
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| Author: | Moscovian [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Squat Movement: 10cm vs 15cm |
They haven't gotten anything like that, E&C, however let it be known something like that is on the table. It isn't meant to be a bandaid for the 10cm move, but the stubborn rule can be changed to accomodate the 10cm pitfalls of withdrawal moves if need be. |
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| Author: | Steve54 [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Squat Movement: 10cm vs 15cm |
Evil and Chaos wrote: Steve: I'd contest your first point with Ork Big Guns, an Infantry unit that's brilliant, even fairly FF biased (for Orks), and has a 10cm move. IIRC Squats were getting some sort of rule that helps them when withdrawing (saves against hackdowns & auto-destroying at 5cm instead of 15cm?) anyway? I do think 10cm could give a unique feel to the army, and is worth trying. But they are a unit that sits on an objective on OW, and tneds to be wiped out if assaulted so any issues don't really arise. Try terminators with a 10cm move |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Squat Movement: 10cm vs 15cm |
Quote: they are a unit that sits on an objective on OW Not mine; I garrison mine (ok starting on overwatch) and then use them as cheaper Blitz brigades, surprising people with their unexpected movement... Quote: Try terminators with a 10cm move I definitely would if they were hacked down @5cm instead of 15cm, or were semi-fearless or something, which is what I thought Squats were getting anyway. I agree a special rule is nessesary, but this is a whole new army, with a legendary status as being stubborn and fighting against the odds, so a rule here could fit. |
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