Hey everyone, I managed to get in 3 games with the Squats at the tournament and a fourth 'training' game against Dark Eldar to help my friend out before the tourney. Details to follow, but my impressions from the tournament were these:

Living Ancestor: I used it in virtually every turn of every game. It saved my bacon on 4 of 7 times and I began to wonder if perhaps it was too powerful / not expensive enough. It was only my previous experiences where it made little difference at all that mitigated my response.

Anyone have any experiences they want to share?

One alternative I fleetingly considered was replacing the retain modifier with a one time Strategy Roll modifier where it adds a +2 to the SR roll once per game; used for those "oh crap" moments. Of course, this might be even more powerful...

Cyclops: Unless somebody can come up with a good reason I am upping the price on this by 25 - 50 points. Why?
Before this weekend, the Cyclops main gun had NEVER hit. EVER. On a MW2+ TK D6+1 weapon, that gets a bit annoying. However, I realized that this was just my luck, not the unit speaking. Still, even Ronsandt told me I was an idiot to bring that War Engine because it was worthless.

Pregame va Dark Eldar: It missed on the first shot and didn't live to make a second one. A Tormentor Titan ate it without taking a bit of damage.

Tourney Game 1 vs Minervans: It took out a Shadowsword on Turn 1, a Stormhammer on Turn 2, and two Leman Russ tanks on turn 3 (one with the battlecannon, one with the main gun). I lost the game when we went to points, but it had nothing to do with this unit.

Tourney Game 2 vs Orks: I used the spotter rule (finally) to take out a third of a formation of buggies as it moved up on a double. On turn 2 my opponent resigned, but the Cyclops was positioned to do some major damage to the numerous Ork Fortresses.

Tourney Game 3 vs Imperial Guard: No War Engines on my opponents side caused me to rethink how to play this piece. Not wanting to get assaulted, I ran it close my infantry formations and moved up quickly. Turn 1 the main gun took out a Leman Russ. Turn 2 and 3 the Cyclops did the most damage with the 4 x AP3+/AT5+ IC weapons. I doubled the Cyclops every turn and it was a monster of a weapon.

I am also considering taking away a single shield and dropping it from 5 to 4 Void Shields. Please, post your opinions.

Goliath Cannons: I see some posts about the Goliaths, but I will tell you there is no reason to make these tougher or more powerful. Take a formation of IG Artillery at 650 points hitting on a 9 BP. Sure, Basilisks don't have the same range, but Manticores do and they effectively fire 9BP per turn.

Compare that against a 3 strong formation of Goliaths at 450 points which will fire 9BP with ignore cover. That is a similar shot for 200 points less with the same (or better) armor. Goliaths have better staying power because they are WEs and don't get supressed as easily. Now, I appreciate the Goliaths don't have the flexibility of movement or switching to non-BP shots, but look at the price difference... And Goliaths rally on a 1+ instead of a 2+. Are the Goliaths too weak/too expensive? I challenge anyone to look at this comparison and say yes. If anything, they are not expensive enough.

Thunderfires: My first tourney game fell apart because I was the victim of 4 flights of Thunderbolts that the Minervans subjected me to. I believe that two formations of Thunderfires are sufficient for the army if you aren't bringing Overlords, but when there are a lot of aircraft you must place them under 30cm apart so that they can mutually support each other. Or simply buy a third Thunderfire unit for the formation.

More later, but feel free to comment.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Hey Stefan,

Tiny-Tim is correct on the Land Train. If you take a gigantic train you will end up with a lot of shields. If you take a tiny train (2 cars) the Train only has 2 shields. The final number of shields and damage capacity describes a single War Engine that you play as one unit. There is no other simple way to build the trains unless you want to have a fixed sized train with a fixed design.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

good evening !

and thanx for posting that fast . .
golitaths; keep them out of the frontline protected by thunderfire und defending the blitz, that is exactly how i use them. yeah i am a great general indeed .
The calculation und camparison is fine for me . i can live with the stats (eventhough i wish they had a 5- reinforced..it is a dwarf gun.. )

The land train; used them in my first games (the death rocket with the orbital bombardment --hell yeah and when the engine had a shield itself), consiting of the engine and 2 cars. Never built a 700 point monster (a task to think about
I left it behind in favour of the cyclops, because of its unique hellfury canon. using my latest list i missed the hellfury (when i faced the eldar titan worth 750 Points) .
Using the cyclops for supporting infantrie ...i gonna give it a try.

your comments on the robbos ?

regards

Stefan

I think the Robots and Tarantulas need help. You are probably right that Armored Vehicle with the Walker ability is the best way to go on the Robots, but now I need to reassess them.

Congratulations on missing with the Hellfury cannon! You are in good company - namely me.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Hellfury cannon missing - yeah been there too. Infuriating isnt it

if AV was to be added to the Robots then either up the cost or drop one of the guns and maintain the cost...

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May your tankard never be dry and the Dice Gods look favourably upon your endeavours!

Hello everybody,

I'm playing against 4000 pts BL tonight, fielding this list. Pricing's off but fits 4000 in TG 1.32. I'll let you know how it fares

Mineral Gung Ho, 3935 POINTS
Squats (NetEA Squats 1.0 *EXPERIMENTAL*)
==================================================

WARRIOR BROTHERHOOD [550]
Hearthguard unit, 14 Warrior units, 4 Thunderer units, Living Ancestor Character

WARRIOR BROTHERHOOD [475]
Hearthguard unit, 14 Warrior units, Warlord Unit, Grand Warlord Character, Rhinos

BERZERKER BROTHERHOOD [275]
Hearthguard unit, Warlord Unit, 7 Berserkers, Rhinos

MOLE MORTAR [175]
6 Mole Mortar untis

MOLE MORTAR [175]
6 Mole Mortar untis

MOLE MORTAR [175]
6 Mole Mortar untis

BIKERS GUILD [270]
Guild Master unit, 4 Guild Bike, 3 Guild Trike

BIKERS GUILD [270]
Guild Master unit, 4 Guild Bike, 3 Guild Trike

BIKERS GUILD [270]
Guild Master unit, 4 Guild Bike, 3 Guild Trike

IRON EAGLE [300]
4 Iron Eagle Gyrocopters, Iron Hawk

THUNDERFIRE [100]
2 Thunderfire

COLOSSUS [450]

OVERLORD [200]
1 Overlord

OVERLORD [200]
1 Overlord

PITHEAD [50]

I'm looking forward to seeing how you get on.

Couple of things that jump out at me, Overlords have increased to 250pts each and you need a minimum of two Battle Cars on your Land Train.

Yes I know, used the Armyforge builder where prices aren't updated, but it adds up. Have the correct list on a sheet here - precisely 4000 pts

Noticed the two cars on the LT sp it's dropped for another Bikers Guild and extra berzerks.

14 activations is okay, some things are a bit pricey

And the bike formations should be 225.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

love the retain modifier and i think the points cost is fine - it didnt work so well for me in my last game but then again my dice had the hate on for me for most of that game...as tempting as it is to have a +2 to strategy roll for one turn i think it would get more bang for ur buck with the retain modifier...as an aside i wouldnt mind seeing the Strategy roll going back to 3+ like it was in some of the older lists.



if dropping void shields to 4 then suggest increase DC to 6...in recent game with DC5 & 5 void shields i didnt see it as too unbalanced (it eventually got eaten by termies)...i think it needs that level of protection as it does have a large target painted on it cause once u have received a hellfury to the face u learn to hate it...dont see change to protection balance as necessary if ur gonna increase the cost...

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May your tankard never be dry and the Dice Gods look favourably upon your endeavours!

Yeah army forge is still based on the 1.0 list for which I made the file. I will look into it when I get the time and send a updated 1.32 file to Adam.

Good luck tonight!

Thanks, Borka.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Precisely! But my list came to 4000, Army Forge was still good for organizing the troops.

Unfortunately, my comeback game with the squats wasn't so fortunate, but sometimes the die are not on your side luck was definitely not on my side hahaha,

Comments on unit types.

Living Ancestor: Special rule works like a charm, think the price is fair, hard to say. My opponent thought it gave flair and made sense fluffwise, he compared the LA to the farseers.

Mole Mortar: fairly balanced nuisance units, 45cm range would make them powerful. We discussed why they didn't have ignore cover, but then I discovered they got disrupt - didn't notice doh. I'll try rapiers next game I think, maybe thudds, but will definitely bring mole mortars.

Gyrocopters: good AT unit as always, but fragile. Seems expensive compared to eldar falcons but I also wasted them on a reckless raid.

Guildmaster: I'd rather have an extra bike and have him as an upgrade like the warlord + inspring, don't think he brings anything to the plate as he is now. Consider drop in inv save for reinforced (my opponent also found this strange that stats were different) and consider boosting him to CC 4+ for +25 points the formation cost. Thought of lance instead of first strike? Mind you these are just thoughts.

Colussus: works good without the IH and the support craft/spotter rule.

Overlord: we discussed this, compared to his decimator, agreeing it's fairly balanced. My opponent wondered if it should have fearless, but given the decent price and the array of guns fearless would perhaps add to the cost.

Thanks for the comments.

I think Overlord with Fearless would be a bit much.

Strange about your comments on the Iron Eagles since many regard them as too heavily armored. The calls for 5+ armor were numerous, but they just don't have it. They are supposed to be flying Leman Russes, so 4+ seemed a good enough nerf.

Guildmaster is still up for debate, however I think the bike formation is generally priced well. They are fast, decent in FF and good in CC, and the trikes give you MW where you want them.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.