I’m going to speak in generalities for now only because I still want to keep discussion going. I’d like the list to be out on the web for a week before we get into the nitty gritty.
Let’s talk army development: I am a firm believer that an army is characterized by what its limitations as much as its abilities. Those limiters provide character and challenges that make playing Epic fun.
I am also a firm believer in starting things weak and moving toward balance from there. Sometimes we’re off on things but generally I like that as a direction. Playtesters who feel passionate about a list typically don’t whine (as much) when they lose. On the flip side, playtesting an uberstrong army against somebody who is helping you out is tremendously un-fun.
And moving forward everyone needs to remember something very important: this is a 1.0 list. 1. Not 9.5 for 12.2 or whatever. If you think anyone should be able to generate a perfect list on 1.0, get packing for dreamland.
So let’s talk some basics...Infiltrator: infiltrator represents the ability to move forward in a charge move faster than normal troops, in other words, they double when they assault. This does not mean that they actually move faster; it means that they navigate the battlefield better than regular troops when assaulting. All units can double, and the argument that Berserkers with infiltrator move faster is flawed. Berserkers move 10cm slower than other infiltrators. We can make all sorts of comparisons, but they need to make logical sense – compare apples to apples. Looking at Wych or Warp Spider infiltrators, they move 10cm faster than Berserker infiltrators.
Although the cartoon gave me a chuckle, it is wholly deceptive (like John Stewart, lies with laughs).
Movement: I see that Curis’ playgroup is against it (so far those are the only voices in opposition). 10cm is a hard pill to swallow. I personally wanted to go for a 12cm move because I felt 1/3 loss in movement is too much, but given the strange aversion to numbers that aren’t divisible by 5, I went with 10cm.
Morgan Vening’s group has been playing with 10cm movements on the Dvergatel list for a long time now and it hasn’t been the apocalyptic description I am getting here this week. Why? I don’t know. I know it has affected the games in our group, but those impacts weren’t terrifyingly abysmal ones and they numbered between 0-2 per game. So 2/3 of the playtest groups say it isn’t bad.
So where does that leave us? We move forward with playtests. When playing the Squats and the movement comes into play, take a picture of the situation, measure it out, and go through a couple minutes of WHAT IF. What if the movement was 12cm? What if the movement was 15cm? Record those moments of the battles and post them out here.
The feedback thus far is good, but anecdotal posts can only take us so far. If the 10cm move is soooooo debilitating, we should be able to quantify and measure its impact. For example:
GOOD FEEDBACK: Quote:
“The 10cm move in the picture below shows how the Squats were unable to retreat from the assault which they lost. 14 Ork units in this crescent shape prevented their escape and 4 of the remaining 9 Warriors were hacked down.”
BAD FEEDBACK:Quote:
“10cm is stupid, fan-boyish, and a ridiculous idea. I hate you!”
I can already tell you I am going to field test 12cm move if the 10cm move doesn’t work, so you might as well drop that variable into the WHAT IF calculator. I do recognize however that the movement is something we need to hammer out early since it impacts everything.
Living Ancestor: Good arguments – what price would we put him at as is?
Hearthguard: costs were incorporated into the Warrior formation cost – they aren’t free. So originally the Warrior formation was 25 points less than it was with the Hearthguard unit in it. I made this change based on feedback from the group.
CC on WEs: we can change it. Lots of feedback on it, but some divergence on what to actually peg them at. I can’t imagine these beasts without some type of close-up defensive weaponry given they fought Orks for millennia.
Spotter: Why did I limit it to the Doomsday Cannon? Because frankly I hate the idea of a single spotter being tied to a single WE. The solution we came up with was pretty simple: tie it to a weapon. Is it the right solution? I don’t know, but I think works pretty well. You can still fire indirect with it and combine it with other BP attacks as long as range is taken into account. The question is whether you would or not. Combining MW and non-MW attacks loses the MW status, so this presents a tough choice to the player, one that most wouldn’t take. As they stand, I like how the Super Heavies work with the Spotters. It certainly makes the spotter easier to balance. Making them more powerful and Iron Hawks and Overlord will go up in price.
Overlords: they are support craft, so if anyone is playing this properly you will know that they cannot hide anywhere. No cover for you! They price point was 225 and I changed it at the last moment to 200 when –on my last two games- I watched them fall from the skies quite easily. I still think the price point is 200-225, but with AA in the mix and my re-evaluating the fire arcs, I need time on this one. I still want to keep the one-shots on the bombs, but that brings me to another point…
Missiles on Super-Heavies: The WYSIWYG is important to a lot of players, including myself. When it came to the Colossus and Cyclops, we counted up missiles and went on our way. However I was given –for these two WEs- a compelling argument for making them average shots. All that space that the Leviathans use for transporting troops is used for something on the Colossus and Cyclops, probably for extra missiles. So IF we were to change their armament, what would we change them to?
Notes on “all around”: WEs are typically hampered with fire arcs, so when there is a turret I included that notation. It doesn’t cost us anything and it will help some players out in the future. That’s why that notation will remain.
