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Squat update - Thurgrimm's Stronghold 1.3

 Post subject: Re: Squat update - Thurgrimm's Stronghold 1.3
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:45 pm 
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Oh, forgot to add one thing about the overlords. You can't forget they compete with other high-value big boys for the WE points allotment. That is an important limitation in itself.
The elegant and easy way to fix them (assuming they're broken) would be nerfing the bomb racks to the 2BP. I'll try to get a game going fielding 4 overlords.


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 Post subject: Re: Squat update - Thurgrimm's Stronghold 1.3
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:05 am 
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Another alternative: drop bombs in pairs - 1BP per pair of bombs dropped.

Having said that I prefer the 2BP nerf, as I'm not keen on units with extra book-keeping.

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 Post subject: Re: Squat update - Thurgrimm's Stronghold 1.3
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:08 pm 
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I'd suggest changing to 2 support per core formation (moving biker brotherhood to core) and upping the formation size on bezerker brotherhoods whilst increasing their points.

A quick 2 minute attempt at breaking the current list (at 3k points) yielded 18 activations, 5 indirect barrages, 9 total barrages, 4 war engines 10 long range AA shots. Hide the beserkers for last minute objective grabs and pound the enemy.

4xBERZERKER BROTHERHOOD
5xTHUNDERFIRE
5xMOLE MORTAR
4xOVERLORD

Could swap an Overlord for a slightly more expensive WE so you have one BTS if needed (maybe a goliath for even more indirect). Sounds silly I know but I'd wager it would be very hard to beat cleanly. Other than Shadowswords and the like not much to fear and they'd be broken after turn 1. Teleporters could be screened by overlords and overwatched thunderfires, I wouldn't fancy air assaulting through that lot either.


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 Post subject: Re: Squat update - Thurgrimm's Stronghold 1.3
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:42 pm 
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Those barrages are range 60cm on sustained fire and 15cm... Doesn't look very hard to beat, honestly, unless you're unlucky on activation rolls.
Nothing in the support slots looks to me to be broken. 3 support per core is adequate. Having 2 per core "company" makes the list even more infantry heavy which I don't believe you have to at this point.
Again, to me, the issues that remain with this list are with the WE's.


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 Post subject: Re: Squat update - Thurgrimm's Stronghold 1.3
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:48 pm 
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settra wrote:
Those barrages are range 60cm on sustained fire and 15cm... Doesn't look very hard to beat, honestly, unless you're unlucky on activation rolls.
Nothing in the support slots looks to me to be broken. 3 support per core is adequate. Having 2 per core "company" makes the list even more infantry heavy which I don't believe you have to at this point.
Again, to me, the issues that remain with this list are with the WE's.


60cm yes, but can garrison so would all be able to hit deployment first turn. Activation attrition would do the job with that list assuming the opponent had around 10.


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 Post subject: Re: Squat update - Thurgrimm's Stronghold 1.3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:29 pm 
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I played a game of epic two days ago (not squats though, they're packed away moveing soon) with a guy from one of groups I play with. They have been trying the thurgrim list. They're not frequent posters here, but apperently they think the price on the overlord is rediciously low.

Myself I don't know as i haven't tested them yet. Seem quite cheap for what they bring even if 250. I like the suggestion of lowering their BPs. But 2 BPs I don't like because then you need two ships in the formation to really have any use for the bombs. And I don't like the counting/book keeping.

I think we should make them 1 BP per every 2 Wysiwyg-bombs and make the weapon profile "Bombs, 4 BP, one shot".


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 Post subject: Re: Squat update - Thurgrimm's Stronghold 1.3
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:53 am 
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Borka wrote:
"Bombs, 4 BP, one shot".


I like that, a good compromise.


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 Post subject: Re: Squat update - Thurgrimm's Stronghold 1.3
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:34 pm 
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Played the squats a few times, and whilst I don't think they're overpowered as a whole, I do think the Overlord's are an issue.

If you compare them to say, decimators and deathwheels(both very competitive choices), they already compare very favourably in terms of firepower before you add the bombs.
In the games I've played support craft has if anything been a bonus rather than a weakness.

4bp sounds a good compromise to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Squat update - Thurgrimm's Stronghold 1.3
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:57 pm 
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I'm considering the options on the BPs.

Support craft, however, is clearly more of a detriment unless you are playing on a board with very little terrain. Being exposed to absolutely everyone from every angle makes them flying bulls-eyes.

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 Post subject: Re: Squat update - Thurgrimm's Stronghold 1.3
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:42 pm 
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Moscovian wrote:
Support craft, however, is clearly more of a detriment unless you are playing on a board with very little terrain. Being exposed to absolutely everyone from every angle makes them flying bulls-eyes.
Hmm, while in general airships were an accident waiting to happen during the early 20th century, it is notable that the Airships used over the US Easter seaboard in WWII as anti submarine patrols were very effective and quite difficult to shoot down. Perhaps you could increase the DC to reflect this, offsetting the disadvantage of being a 'flying bullseye'.

OTOH the Squats probably don't care too much about such minor details as survival, just as long as it crashes on top of an enemy formation - so perhaps the notes could reflect that by having the pilot try to steer the dying craft onto an enemy formation within "X" cm (is 20 cm too large?). Move to intended location, scatter with 2xD6 and dice for all affected units that are in contact.
And I suggest this should always happen unless a Critical is scored, blowing the thing out of the sky . . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Squat update - Thurgrimm's Stronghold 1.3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:40 pm 
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Quick question on the Cyclops.

I was wondering what people would think about the Doomstorm missiles being changes to AT2+ or AT3+ and losing the Indirect Fire. This would further focus the role of the Cyclops as a WE killer. Move into range of a WE, strip any shields with the Doomstrikes and follow up with the killer blow from the Hellfury Cannon.


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 Post subject: Re: Squat update - Thurgrimm's Stronghold 1.3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:22 pm 
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I'm not sure. My first thought is it would make it even less desirable to bring than it currently is. So far I am hard pressed to bring the Cyclops unless I am specifically testing it. There is always something better to bring. Perhaps I am jumping the gun, though.

1.31 coming out today.

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 Post subject: Re: Squat update - Thurgrimm's Stronghold 1.3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:51 pm 
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Moscovian wrote:
My first thought is it would make it even less desirable

Interesting as I was trying to balance the improvement (IMO) of dropping the barrage with the increase in AT fire. The list already has plenty of options for barrages which I agree are more appealing than the Cyclops.

Of course we can always make the Hellfury Cannon 2+D6 which will be instant death to any unshielded Warhound or Super Heavy Tank. (Something for the Cobra to look at as well.)


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