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Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed

 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:07 pm 
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To further add, I would drop tunnellers, introduce space drops (the Khazari floating droid vehicle springs to mind). Cut Thurgrimm infantry formations into smaller detachments. Maybe use robotic core formations. Ditch bikers. Add space ships (use BFG Demiurg).

For super-heavies, slow Skimmer class Fortresses (saves us the trouble of CC3+ Colossus ;) )

/Fredmans


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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:11 pm 
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Ok- we would need to replace the Demiurg spacecraft with something made up.

I agree on robots and on more mobility. Hence comment on Sandcrawlers. Guess would be difficult to justify Thunderfires and Goliaths if more mobile. Agree with earlier comment on smaller Warrior formations than Thurgrimm's- maybe make transport as standard so no footslogging?

Would there be any good proxies in Dystopian Wars range for more crawlers? Something to differentiate them from pre-invasion Squats whilst keeping them mobile.

How mobile were Land Trains? I am struggling to fit them into the above picture of nomadic traders/miners etc. To me Land Trains are something that would be fielded when Stongholds were in their prime.

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:14 pm 
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Which is it? Dropping Demiurg element or using BFG Demiurg?

fredmans wrote:
To further add, I would drop tunnellers, introduce space drops (the Khazari floating droid vehicle springs to mind). Cut Thurgrimm infantry formations into smaller detachments. Maybe use robotic core formations. Ditch bikers. Add space ships (use BFG Demiurg).

For super-heavies, slow Skimmer class Fortresses (saves us the trouble of CC3+ Colossus ;) )

/Fredmans


fredmans wrote:
I think the safest option is to remove the "Demiurg" element of post-Tyranid Squat, just in case GW decided to introduce a new alien race into the 40K universe. It would save us from the trouble of excessive re-writing.

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:28 pm 
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A few notes:

As E&C pointed out, GW is identifying the Demiurg as alien and we will not contradict them, regardless of the injustice they visited upon the Squats. Therefore, any conflating of the Demiurg and Trade Consortium would be a violation of IP Guidelines.

Some limited ideas Borka and I came up with:

Robot heavy list.(Robots, Hvy Robots, Scout Robots, Tarantulas, etc.)
Fixed ratios of infantry to Robots (such as 3 robot formations must be accomanied by 1 infantry formation).
Aerial drone formations
Aerial transport ships (no planetfall ability, but heavily armored)
Overlords
Gyrocopters
Shield Generators
Automated stuff

Also, anybody helping out on this should be prepared to make models out of GW parts or from scratch. No mixing of Intellectual Protperty. That doesn't mean you can't use them, but this list is for a supplement and the models we feature in the datafaxes need to come with some sort of Modeling Section, showing how to make them.

Keep up the discussion and the interest!

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:52 pm 
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wargame_insomniac wrote:
Which is it? Dropping Demiurg element or using BFG Demiurg?

fredmans wrote:
To further add, I would drop tunnellers, introduce space drops (the Khazari floating droid vehicle springs to mind). Cut Thurgrimm infantry formations into smaller detachments. Maybe use robotic core formations. Ditch bikers. Add space ships (use BFG Demiurg).

For super-heavies, slow Skimmer class Fortresses (saves us the trouble of CC3+ Colossus ;) )

/Fredmans


fredmans wrote:
I think the safest option is to remove the "Demiurg" element of post-Tyranid Squat, just in case GW decided to introduce a new alien race into the 40K universe. It would save us from the trouble of excessive re-writing.


I would drop the word "Demiurg", but I would not hesitate using the ForgeWorld Models for now, especially if we need to stick to GW-approved material. If that restriction was dropped, I would personally look into those slick space ships I sometimes see used as Space Marine space ships (but cannot remember the name of). A kit-bash of Imperial ships would also be fitting (sort of we had three ships, but one broke down and we had to accomodate those people in the other ships), to show Imperial roots, but modified to suit new needs.


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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:57 pm 
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I would consider using rogue trader ships.

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:39 pm 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
I would consider using rogue trader ships.

That would help distinguish them from Demiurg.

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:50 pm 
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fredmans wrote:
To further add, I would drop tunnellers,
(Snip)
Ditch bikers.

Just curious reasons for dropping Tunnellers and Bikers. Tunnellers would fit perfectly with mining emphasis.

We know that GW wanted to get away from the short bikers in space vibe. So they ditched those elements for Demiurg. But if Trade Consortium list is representing post-invasion Squat survivors rather than Demiurg, then there is no reason for us to do likewise.

Just seen Moscovian's point on no mixing of IP. So for now that means no proxies from Dystopian Wars or EW etc. But if that is the case we dont want to drop too much of the old Squat models otherwise will be too reliant on scratchbuilds/conversions just to get a basic army selection.

I think bikes would certainly fit in with more nomadic lifestyle of post-invasion Squats. And help distinguish them from any reworked Demiurg.

Cheers

James

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:15 pm 
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I concur on keeping tunnelers. And I would think Bikes would be fine in small amounts (all infantry needs to be in small amounts). In fact I wonder if there are any ideas of quick moving robots that could keep up with bikes..?

As for Dystopian or Exodus Wars, I think they are great companies to go to for proxies for players' armies. I just can't use any of them for the pictures in the supplement.

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:21 pm 
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fredmans wrote:
I think the safest option is to remove the "Demiurg" element of post-Tyranid Squat, just in case GW decided to introduce a new alien race into the 40K universe. It would save us from the trouble of excessive re-writing.

From what I have gathered, the Demiurg list was the thought of nomadic, space-travelling remnants of Squat civilization, doing trading, mercenary fighting, asteroid mining etc. A Squat take on the Eldar Craftworlds, really. As such, I do think it is a concept that can easily be explored and turned into a functional army list. A nomadic space-travelling life style is not self-sustaining and as such would see the need of military force to ensure supplies (fuel, water, food) and valuable ores. In the grimdark future, people fight for much less.

More mobile, including space craft and more robotic (less population), a little like Iyanden.

Why not?

/Fredmans


Yeah this is basically what I and Moscovian have been discusing for background and like he points out we had a few ideas how to implement this. For instance more robots/automatons/less living infantry. Perhaps introducing (automated) fliers. etc. I have started converting a few units and will gladly share these and give input and take part in future discusions, if it's desired, with whoever takes the reins.

I started working fulltime in february (or actually more) and then me and Fredmans are also doing a tournament in the summer with needed preparations. Available hobby time have therefore been cut brutally short. It felt best towards Moscovian and his supplement development to hand over the development to someone else.

Good luck!

cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:28 pm 
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Funny thing, before reading this, a couple of days ago our gaming group was discussing "post-bioapocalypse squats" and came up with some pretty solid ideaa:

Formations of robots (very limited types, perhaps just 2) and tarantulas supported by gyrocopters and plenty of airships (including the overlords). No squats whatsover fighting as infantry. The robots would have some limits on orders (we discussed some pretty complicated options here...). The big tracked WE would be replaced by huge airships (yeah the large flyers from the dystopian wars got me itching to do some conversions) with mostly defensive capabilites and C&C.

C&C - the large airships would have command and control centers that would enable robots within a limited range (like 30cm) to ignore the limitations on orders.

Drone Swarms - The large airships (or some of them) would be surrounded by large swarms of small automated flyers that could be used as:
Attack weapons just by including a stat line for these. this would represent the flyers acting as kamikaze. Suggested with very short range (perhaps just 15cm).
Defensive weapons by giving a -1 cover save
According to game balance and airship design add AND OR for these two options according to taste :)

Got to finish my current TOEG to try this. the possible conversions using the dystopian wars range almost got me derailed into starting a new army there and then!
The problem with the IP is crippling...


Last edited by settra on Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:08 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:48 am 
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IP would nt stop you doing that army- does sound cool. It just would stop pictures being shown in the Net EA supplement, or of units being included in the army list that could nt be converted from other gW figures / scratchbuilt.

I have nt looked through the Dystopian Wars range fully but the odd figure I have seen looks pretty cool, and would be great to see what you come up with in any new TOEG.

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:43 am 
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settra, GREAT ideas. Stick around because I want to mine that Squatty brain of yours for more ideas. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:46 am 
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had my first game with the "Demiurg" list last night against Onyx and found it an eye opener after a couple years of playing marines...

Settra's ideas sound very cool, but i couldnt help thinking the Squats were the trade federation and their droid army from the Star Wars prequels (C3 ships running the force)...but maybe thats just my twisted mind...

going along with the theme of robotizing the list...u could still use gyros as robot flyers (replace cockpit with AI equipment)...even the bikes could be robots - robot bike in Terminator Salvation...i like the idea of robot infantry - synthetics replacing living warriors...

but if doing a survivor list then it should be robot & vehicle heavy as they are not gonna be risking squishy Squat bodies if possible...or upgrade the infantry to better armour/weapons and in smaller groups, like small elite formations instead of PBI...

the idea of flyers as transports is good, IG have them, why cant Squats?

anyways, enough ramblings for now, back to work!

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:56 am 
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One thing i proposed was mixed infantry formations. A disadvantage could be applied if all living units are killed in the formations, like 3+ initiative for exempel. I think that would add flavour.

Cheers


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