Yes & Yes.

The indirect comes from the Spotter rule so that the train can keep moving and shoot.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
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Well in the 1.5 list the doomsday cannon doesn't have indirect so can't use the spotter rule?

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@MephistonAG for all sorts of twitter madness

I'm seriously considering removing the spotter function from the list and as such removing the Iron Hawks. It comes into play so seldom. I tried to have it hearken back to the old days, but it never felt right. Pulling it will smooth out the list.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

I'd gotten used to it. But removing Spotter will help streamline the list

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It will certainly reduce the number of eye rolls from other players...
"They have spotting too?"
"The Tau don't even have that!"
"They get that on top of the awesome range?"
Blah blah blah...

Really, the list won't suffer if I take it out. I thought about adding an Iron Eagle to the Colossus just because it used to have one - don't add any special rules to it- but even then I don't know why other than to make it look cool.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

If you remove the spotter rule would you completely delete the Iron Hawks? Because while I don't often use the spotter rule on the Hawks, I do certainly use the scout.

I find it important to screen many other units from those pesky teleporting terminators/necrons who are prevalent in the local meta.

Reviewing all the opposing lists, Squats are a bit short on 'wacky' special rules.

Guard and Orks are pretty vanilla
Space Marines have half blast markers
Chaos have summoning rules
Tau, Eldar and Necro have pages of wacky rules that make them play very much unlike any other army.

Squats have two rules: Autonom which is a weak fearless on a few units, and Spotter, which is indirect fire if you're near an aircraft.

I generally judge the quality of a special rule if I can explain it in one sentence to an opponent and get the gist of it across

I would vote in keeping it unchanged as it's okay

I would claim that Orks are far from vanilla. They have 3 very special rules. First the way they build their army, with 3 different sizes to all mobs, also one of the few other lists that allow mixed WE and normal units. Secondly 3+ initiative with +2 for charge and double is also a very defining set of special rules. And thirdly mob up rule. They all synergies to make orks feel quite different from guards for instance.

I would also claim that the pages of special rules for eldar/tau/necron is hardly a positive thing. Detracting from the streamline feel of Epic.

For squats I personally don't see the need for the spotter rule. The feel of the squats is conveyed in the way the units are constructed (even though I would have preferred a more tanky feel instead of the glass cannon, popcorn feel I have with the squats).

I played against this list last night. Is this the thread for battle reports or do they go somewhere else?

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Depends on how large your report is. If it is detailed with photos start a thread on the Battle report section and post a link here otherwise knock yourself out.

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NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

Mosc, any more thoughts on sethanon's and my feedback from Page 8?

Played against this list last Thursday using my Epic UK Tyranids.
This is a difficult match-up for 'nids with a few skimmers on the other side and A LOT of barrage points. In the end I won 2-1 (3-1 if we had time) but I think that was more due to difference in player experience than anything else. From memory my opponent had:
2 * Overlords
Leviathan with infantry inside
Warriors
Berzerkers
Bikes/Trikes
Iron Hawk
Robots
Goliaths
Colossus

So a lot of variety in the list, but IMO too many of the slow-moving formations and not enough support stuff to set up cross-fires, claim objectives, etc.
I can understand how the Overlords are balanced against many opponents being always popped up but against 'nids they are terrifying. Skimmers with a lot of firepower and not costing a lot of points. Mostly I contained them by putting stuff in front of them and trying to distract them from moving forward. In the end I did kill one through termagant firefight. For simplicity, I think the firepower on these, and a few other squat units, could be reduced or abstracted. For instance an Overlord firing rolls 10 dice + the barrage weapon. And that's a 250 point unit. With current firepower I think these should cost at least 275 points since not everybody will bring shadowswords or equivalent. They compare very favourably with IG SHT.

The spotter rule was okay, but I don't think there was ever a moment in the game I wasn't almost 100% spotted. With a 75cm range on the spotter, it's hard to stay out of it. On the flip side, not much in the squat army benefits from spotter either. So it's a bit of a non-factor in actual gameplay. You'll be spotted most of the time and there's little to do about it, but it's not that bad to be spotted. Compare to Tau markerlight which is hard to achieve but yields bigger rewards and makes for a more tactical game.

Goliaths were of course a big PITA for 'nids but they only got to fire once. Even slowpoke nids have a way of getting to the Goliaths in time. My opponent mis-remembered their stats (I only had 1.5 with me) so we played them DC3 5+RA each (!) and at the time they seemed waaaaaaay too strong for artillery. But at DC2 5+ they seem very, very vulnerable. No opinion either way.

The SHTs suffered from the usual problem these things have: Either you move loads and negate their firepower a bit, or stay still and are a bit irrelevant to the game. The Colossus is pretty fearsome - 11BP anyone? Perhaps the missiles could be AP/AT shots instead? Or MW shots? Just to simplify things. In general, I dislike alpha strike weapons in E:A as they require no skill to use and can change a game straight from the first activation without the opponent being able to do anything about it. Also having the missiles as AP/AT shots would not negate the MW from the main gun when fired together.
The Leviathan was okay, but I had experience of playing against it when playtesting Cadians. It's amazing in assaults if it gets the infantry behind it to protect it, not so good in assaults if the infantry is out and taking hits.

Other things seemed fine and balanced. I think the list is okay overall. Perhaps very weak against aircraft and air assault armies but nids were not going to bring those were they?

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Thanks for your comments Carlos.

I also dusted off my Squats yesterday and played with the following against Sisters.

Berzerkers (& Hearthguard) + Leviathan
Warrior Brotherhood + Rhinos
Thunderfire Battery
Overlord
Guild Outriders + Grand Warlord (3x Guild Trikes)
Iron Eagles
Iron Eagles
Goliath
Land Train - Berserker BC & Dragon BC
Land Train - Berserker BC & Berserker BC

All I'll say about this was that my first turn activations were poor, my shooting worse and the Sisters had turned on their power armour. Apart from the Squats not blowing themselves up there was nothing further to learn from this game for the Squats apart from 1+ initiative would always be nice (& no I'm not asking for it)

Our game was very unusual in that over 3 turns we failed a couple of activations/rallies... combined! IIRC I went turn 2 without even using my supreme commander re-roll which is crazy. That made for a somewhat unusual game with v/ few broken units and everything going according to plan.

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When both Land Trains, Overlord and Berserkers (+Leviathan) do not pass their activation roll, you know you are going to be in trouble.

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