So you reckon the stats and points are pretty fair?

As for the "vs daemons" special rule, I think what we were talking about was a rule that only came into effect when playing vs daemons, and had the caveat that thd daemon player got a commensurate bonus also. Something like all grey knight attacks ignore invulnerable saves vs daemons, and daemons are easier to summon vs grey knights.

Tournament lists should avoid specific rules for specific opponents. Instead, publish a scenario with the list with the rule that's intended for it to be played Chaos v. Gk

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Fair enough.

Yeah that seems a way cool bit of fan service if you ask me. You should kick around some scenario ideas with November Rain (I think he's handling the Daemon World list) as that would be THE canonical match-up.

Have you thought about psycannons on the Storm chicken (at some point they used to have them for this list)? Be nice perhaps to keep the short range firepower theme

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Its odd, the Grey Knights Storm Turkey was never able to take psycannon in 40k. Ov course you could take assault cannons with the psybolts upgrade that worked exactly the same, but I don't think GW wanted to drop the cash on cutting a new sprue for a single weapon upgrade for a single army. No reason not to include them in their Epic incarnation though, and the stats Consul Avenging Angel posted earlier included a psycannon profile.

What do you think about the reworked stats and point costs for the grey knight squads he posted?

SM is for small arms ie. fire fight so the Hurricanebolters get additional FF attacks which is the same as Land Raider Crusaders and Ironclad Dreadnoughts. Also typo on the Twin Pyscannon that should be 30cm AP4+/AT4+.

As for the Dreadknight I would happy with reinforced armour, thick rear armour if appopriatly costed and I have always like the teleporter idea. I recon due to its size it would be move vulnerable than your basic termie, with two variants so something like this,

Dreadknight, 75 points each (2 per formation)
AV, Move 15cm 4+Am/3+CC/4+FF
Nemesis Daemon Hammer, MW EA+1
Heavy Incinerator 15cm AP3+ Ignore Cover
Heavy Pyscannon 30cm AP4+/AT4+
(Teleport, Reinforced Armour, Walker, Thick Rear Armour)
Or
AV, Move 30cm 5+Am/3+CC/4+FF
Nemesis Daemon Hammer, MW EA+1
Heavy Incinerator 15cm AP3+ Ignore Cover
Heavy Pyscannon 30cm AP4+/AT4+
(Teleport, Reinforced Armour, Walker, Thick Rear Armour, Jump Packs)

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DOH you're right he did put them on last page (I read twin-XXXX and went mentally straight to Twin-Assault Cannon).
Yes the psybolts were the equivalent which is why they were just "rounded off", so to speak, as psycannons way back in the annals of time...


I like the stats for the most part (not sure about the dreadknight but I don't have the latest GK stuff). A force of teleporters can be a real bear to deal with but does fit the theme

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Glad you like them jimmyzimms, just had a after thought and the Dreadknight should be light vehicle not armoured vehicle. This would make them more vulnerable I recon.

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Since this topic is really hotting up (which is great!) please can we address the razorback buff. It has psycannons instead of heavy bolters which seems like a straight up buff.

Do people have an opinion on that?

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Ben Sibbald

Personal & Wargaming Blog: http://www.theancienttrack.blogspot.co.uk

EPIC WIP: Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Eldar

Yeah I was looking at that and thinking why would I take lascannon razorback when I could have AP and AT. Just loss the option seems simplest.

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agreed. standard options should be fine.

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Works for me. And I think changing Dreadknights to Light Vehicles is a good idea as well.

Also, I'm not sure Grey Knights should have access to Hunters. I mean, it's nice to have access to some anti-air that isn't Thunderhawks, but their lack of access to all the neat Astartes armoured vehicles is one of their balancing things. They're great in close range and they can all deep strike, but they don't have whirlwinds, predators, vindicators, landspeeders, bikes, or hunters.

It would hurt losing that long range anti-tank and anti-air. At least in 40K the Stormraven can double as anti-air, since it counts as a flyer itself. But I also think a list needs weaknesses as well as strengths and this might be one we should look at. Maybe someone with a bit more experience could weigh in? Would losing the hunters cripple the list? Or add just enough of a weakness to make things interesting? I don't want the list to be unplayable due to a weakness, but I also don't want it to rely on units in Epic that aren't even available to it in 40K.

Having said that, I don't think a Grey Knights army would ever ally in Imperial Navy aircraft either. They tend to do things very much in-house, so I think they'd be unlikely to bring in other Imperial organisations unless they have to. But it's a hard decision because their 40K anti-air unit (the Stormraven) doesn't have that capability in Epic.

"Having said that, I don't think a Grey Knights army would ever ally in Imperial Navy aircraft either."

I'm not sure about that - by that token they shouldn't get stormtrooper / Inquisitor allies.

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Ben Sibbald

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EPIC WIP: Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Eldar

Yeah, it's sort of a tough question. On the one hand, the Grey Knights have a very specialised sort of force. On the other, they often work with Inquisitors who have the ability to requisition anything they please, hence the Inquisitorial Stormtroopers and warrior acolytes.

Ideally I'd like to see a similar split like in 40K where the Grey Knights and the Inquisition are separate forces, but it's not so much of a big deal that it really worries me. It just seems odd that the ONLY imperial presence in a Grey Knights army is likely to be a pair of Thunderbolt fighters. If the Grey Knights were working in concert with other Imperial forces I'd like to see other elements on the table like guardsmen, tanks, etc. In that case, Imperial Navy fighter support makes sense. But the Grey Knights tend to avoid that since it gets messy afterwards with all that purging and mind-wiping

I guess it's not unreasonable to assume that there are some other Imperial assets in the area that have been called in by a mysterious third party with extremely high security clearance, only for the pilots never to be seen again or to have no memory of their mission. Or for the Inquisition to have a small cadre of pilots capable of providing fire support when necessary.

Dropping the Hunters would seriously hinder the list, I would suggest going the other way and have the option of taking them in pairs. As for fighter aircraft it would be more sensible to replace them with stormtalons and maybe some sort of bomber aircraft like a thunderhawk. This would reflect the elite nature of the list having space marine aircraft with 1+ initiative.

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