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Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0

 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:32 pm 
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I field a "purely sisterhood" army, without any of the other inquisitorial or militia stuff. I just like the flavour of the Sororitas, but not the other stuff. And I suspect there may be a fair number of players with similar ideas.

Same here I usually only take one non sister formation in a 3k game.
Quote:
The mentioned fast, hard-hitting mech is fine, although it is rather close to a Space Marine force, especially since in your version of the army lists the Missions are bought with built-in transport (unike the 2014 compendium version, where you bought all trasnport, incl. rhinos separately)

There is a difference in the transport option for sisters you still have to take the transport upgrade in order to have rhinos, the space marine special rule means they have the choice to swap out their free transports at the beginning of any tournament game.
Quote:
The other variant that I think should be a serious option is a force that is best used in heavy urban terrain - sisters going in with bolters and flamers to burn the heretics out of their unholy sanctuaries - or defending some holy place against attack from dark forces. Pretty much what you read in a lot of the fluff.
Which is why I prefer the 2014 version of the battle sisters with flamers (ignore cover)+bolters as standard weaponry rather than the plain (boring) bolter. Also, I have modelled my sisters using flamethrowers.

I'm going too do a pole on this soon.
Quote:
I play more Minigeddon than full-sized Epic Armageddon, so I would not like putting the pair of chapels above 400 points. Though one could make a Minigeddon special fomration of a single chapel at half the price. BTW why must the chapels come in pairs? couldn't the formation be 1-2 chapels at 175 (or whatever points) each?

The reason their in pairs is they wouldn't work as a single warengine, however if you want to try them as a single warengine I would suggest it at 200 points.

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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:39 pm 
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Consul Avenging Angel wrote:
Quote:
The mentioned fast, hard-hitting mech is fine, although it is rather close to a Space Marine force, especially since in your version of the army lists the Missions are bought with built-in transport (unike the 2014 compendium version, where you bought all trasnport, incl. rhinos separately)

There is a difference in the transport option for sisters you still have to take the transport upgrade in order to have rhinos, the space marine special rule means they have the choice to swap out their free transports at the beginning of any tournament game.


Okay, let's see if I have understood you correctly here.
So "Transport" is an upgrade that - with Rhinos - costs you zero points?
Would this mean that, in a Tournament that uses the same army list through the whole set of games, I always have to put the Transport on the table? Or could I leave the Rhinos off-table in any game?

Whatever the answer is to that, an upgrade that costs zero points doesn't really make sense to me. After all, you get: 4 extra units, better mobility, an additional armour save for transported sisters and more CC/FF weapons - not too bad for an extra zero points, IMHO.

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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:52 pm 
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Quote:
Okay, let's see if I have understood you correctly here.
So "Transport" is an upgrade that - with Rhinos - costs you zero points?
Would this mean that, in a Tournament that uses the same army list through the whole set of games, I always have to put the Transport on the table? Or could I leave the Rhinos off-table in any game?

Whatever the answer is to that, an upgrade that costs zero points doesn't really make sense to me. After all, you get: 4 extra units, better mobility, an additional armour save for transported sisters and more CC/FF weapons - not too bad for an extra zero points, IMHO.


Yes, yes and no too those questions, you have to put the rhinos on the table for all your games if the rhino upgrade is selected and if you don't take rhino upgrade then you can not use them at all (even though their free).
The reason you might not use the rhino upgrade is for garrisons or mounted in chapels or the cathedral.

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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:53 pm 
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okay the armyforge list is done and awaiting server refresh

just curious about whether the inquisitorial retinue needs seven different types of infantry choices? seems a tad granular....

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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:10 pm 
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Thanks kyussinchains your a trooper.

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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 12:09 am 
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Used the army forge maker. Is this the sort of list that the V1.1 is supposed to encourage you towards?

Heaven on wheels, 3000 POINTS
Adepta Sororitas (V1.1 - Developmental)
==================================================

MISSION [325]
8 Battle Sister Units, Canoness

MISSION [300]
8 Battle Sister Units, 3 Repressor, Rhino

COVEN [275]
4 Dominion Sister Units, 4 Immolator

COVEN [275]
4 Dominion Sister Units, 4 Immolator

EXORCISM [200]
4 Exorcist

CHOIR [275]
6 Seraphim Sister Units, Palatine


EMPERORS CHAPELS [350]
2 Emperors Chapel War Engines

EMPERORS CHAPELS [350]
2 Emperors Chapel War Engines

CATHEDRAL OF PURIFICATION [500]

LIGHTNING SQUADRON [150]
2 Lightning Strike Fighters



I nearly went pure Battle Sisters and Emperor Catherdrals!

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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 10:24 pm 
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If you give that a spin I'd be mighty interested to hear how it goes.

I tend to end up with more missions and more bodies on the field.


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 6:11 pm 
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Now that tournaments are finished for a while I'm going to get some testing done with sisters. I'll post up the proposed elements for testing later.
That is the sort of build I would be looking for madd0ct0r, I would also be interested in how it plays. In the next game I'll be trying the Choir with teleport.

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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 8:32 pm 
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It has been pointed out to me that the warband retinue options are far to complicated so I will reduce them to two types one being support staff the other veteran henchmen. The proposed elements for testing are for the Choir to have teleport, formations of Immorlators or Repressors and different weapon choices for the Mission and Retributors.
1.Choir of six Seraphim have teleport rule at 225 points
2.Support formation of six Immorlators or Repressors for 250 points
Immorlator 4+/6+/5+
Twin Multi-Melta 15cm 4+ MW
(small arms) MW
Faithful
Repressor 4+/6+/4+
Heavy Flamer 15cm 4+ AP
(small arms) Ignore Cover
Walker, Faithful
3.Alternate weapons for Mission and Retribution
Choice of weapons for sister's and retributor's
Fix battle sister's weapons hbolters with more favourable retributor upgrade (10 point per replaced stand) and allow choice for retributor's
Fix weapons for both with half hbolters and half hflamers per formation

I'll test this list, the plan is too teleport in the Choir's and combine engage using the Palatine's commander.
Version 1.4 3000 points, Choir have teleport rule at 225 points.
MISSION [375]
8 Battle Sister Units, Canoness, 4 Rhino
MISSION [325]
8 Battle Sister Units, Priest, 4 Rhino
MISSION [325]
8 Battle Sister Units, Priest, 4 Rhino
EXORCISM [300]
5 Exorcist, Hunter
CHOIR [275]
6 Seraphim Sister Units, Palatine
CHOIR [225]
6 Seraphim Sister Units
COVEN [250]
4 Dominion Sister Units, 2 Repressor
COVEN [250]
4 Dominion Sister Units, 2 Repressor
PENTINENCE [175]
4 Pentinent Engines
EMPERORS CHAPELS [350]
2 Emperors Chapel War Engines
LIGHTNING SQUADRON [150]
2 Lightning Strike Fighters

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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 11:12 am 
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With the BA list long ago we also had this conversation - assault marines + teleport, to represent their dee pstrike sryleof fight, but turned out, that it gives them too much power, and not fit well in the rulesystem. I also think that Seraphim + teleport is also too powerful, and comparing to other lists, not really reasonable..

Which is sad, since SoB is a bit of a ground based army :D


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 6:10 pm 
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Yes I agree with you pati in the BA list assault marines with teleport is overpowered, that is because it has the combination of airassault, droppods/planetfall and high strategy rating. In the sisters list however there is no access to that sort of tactic it is far more risky, the low strategy rating and no follow up support in turn one.
I'll give it a go and see.

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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:06 pm 
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Hey Consul, is the Acts of Faith the action? When you perform it do you also get to do a normal action (advance, double, etc.) AND get fearless and invulnerable save? Or is it just stay put and get fearless and invuln.? Also, any idea if that was hoe it was played in 1.4?

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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:04 pm 
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Hi Dave the act of faith is done on top of activation, so do a advance, double etc. with act of faith as well.
Quote:
Also, any idea if that was hoe it was played in 1.4?

I don't understand this question?

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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:11 am 
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Had a game today using v1.4 against Rug and Blood Angels, EpicUK.

I decided to take the warengines out for a spin and run with more of the upgrades rather than putting more formations on the board. It was a very close win 2-1 for the Sisters, coming down to a final rally roll end of turn 3. Though, a turn 4 would have turned into a bloodbath with the remaining...2 terminators, 1 thunderhawk, 1 land speeder, 1 death company and 1 tactical facing down a lot of Sisters.

I took

Mission+Supreme Commander+1xCelestians+Immolator 420
Mission+2xCelestians+Immolator 340
Exorcists+Hunter 300
Exorcists+Hunter 300
Retributors+Immolator 275
Retributors+Immolator 275
Seraphim 200
Penitent Engines+2xPenitent Engines 245
2xChapels 350
Lightnings 150
Lightnings 150

Hmmm, recounting I'm 5pts over... (the odd 5pts here and there in the list upgrades are fiddly and apparently error prone...)

Turn 1 started with a mistake form the Blood Angels, forgetting to teleport in Terminators, compounded by failing an activation roll. Exorcists drove forward and fired upon some Land Speeders, only killing 2. The Land Speeders puled back, mission moved forward and fooolishly intermingled with the Exorcists, trying to give them covering fire against any air assaults. Air assault comes in from the Death Company and wipes out the Exorcists and breaks the mission BTS, leaving 2 models in the BTS. The Death Company are killed down to a single stand, which breaks and runs. Another air assault comes in and wipes one of the Retributors, leaving just a single Immolator which escapes into the SMarine half of the board. Not a lot else happens, sisters move toward the center of the board, the Chapels drop a big template onto a large assault marine formation and second Retributors shoot and break them. Middle of the board is turning into a massive network of overlapping support fire. 2 Penitents die.

Turn 2, Terminators teleport into the middle, Baal Predators wipe out the Penitents. Terminators retain and get support from Baals and wipe out Exorcists and a Retributor formation and lose 2 Terminators. Chapels sustain breaking Baals and BMing Terminators. Thunderhawk lands and picks up tacticals. Lightnings blow up several land speeders and break them. Mostly some shuffling from the marines while Sisters pick off the remaining assault marines, wipe out the Baals and shoot at land speeders leaving both formations broken and with 1 model. The lightnings come in and destroy the Thunderhawk which had just picked up the tacticals, killing 3 more. Tacticals marshal and advance into cover.

Turn 3 and a bit of plinking, Tacticals dreadnought takes 5 AT hits and passes all 5 in one go. Shuffling for objectives, shooting to place BMs. Sisters win 2-1, controlling all the objectives in their half and preventing any enemy units being in their half and marines scored BTS.

====

Chapels were alright, drove forward 15cm, fired twice and drove back to block the route to the blitz. Got shot once, took no damage. Nothing they did could not have been accomplished by a mission or similar for fewer points, the BP6 combined ignore cover was the only relevant contribution. They are a blitz guard or pillbox and not really that good at it because any competent engager will break them. 2xDC3 5= averages 2 hits, 5+ saves are common...odds are just over 1 kill despite being festooned with some of the best short ranged firefight weapons in the Imperium.

Penitent Engines could have been great but were killed quickly. An early garrison forward was not attempted because the marines garrisoned two sets of land speeders who would have shot them and left their good CC abilities irrelevant. Instead they trundled forward and got shot. Would definitely try them again though, especially with a second formation at 7 strong. Having 14 of them garrisoned forward for T1 macro nightmares could be fun. And even in cover their flamers on overwatch would be alright.

Celestians...I don't think they actually landed any macro hits all game but were fine.

Immolators were good, I think though the Repressor should drop in points because +25 adds an immolator to a formation, giving an extra model due to transport capacity 1, the Repressor carries 2 so the +25 points replaces a rhino.

I think the points costs of the missions, retributors, exorcists, etc. are pretty much where they need to be.

General thoughts:
- The list in v1.4 is very one dimensional, rhino rush and support fire everything.
- The more exotic elements (arco flagellants, repentia, chapels, cathedral, inquisitorial formations, etc.) either have glaring weaknesses (being CC only formations so useless on defence and dependant on their Rhinos meaning they are easy to strand) or do basically the same thing as the regular sisters (and often worse per point - what role does the inquisitorial retinue fill?).
- Penitents are the main exception here, they're a nice shock unit that can pull off some deployment tricks with garrison and their heavy hitting CC and IC guns.
- The list plays epic, it doesn't pull any weird shenanigans or tricks, it rewards key epic tents like support fire, controlling ground and knowing when to go for objectives so what it does now shouldn't be stripped away...but something should be done so that it has more than one playstyle/list build.
- I think the Inquisitorial options should be bringing some of that unique flair but right now they're fairly uninspiring. Spamming the chimera mounted inquisitorial storm troopers could work, pretty dull though.
- Limited ways of taking out infantry at range, the list really struggles with finishing off infantry unless it engages it. Anti tank firepower at range is fine, not great, but alright. Big warengines could be a real challenge with no meaningful TK. Something with Void Shields would be a nightmare, such as a Warlord or Reaver titan equivalent.

From your PoV as army designer, what different playstyles do you see the sororitas using? Right now they do rhino rush well. What other style do you think they should be doing?

Would drop pods work? How about inducted guard elements from the Inquisitor? Oddball Inquisitorial units like small formations of 4 stand assassins appearing from nowhere? Something to make the chapels/cathedral more exciting than a slow, trundling, single relevant weapon...board presence thing?


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:24 pm 
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Thanks for the report Scutarii.

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