So I'm sitting in a hospitality conference and bored to tears, but fortunately I anticipated this and smuggled in some Epic army lists.

Everyone knows analyzing army lists during boring presentations is the perfect time to do this, right?!

Anyway, realizing the AM v1.2 list I was coming up with in my head was lacking scouts, I glanced at the sentinels and thought, hmmm, I could have sworn those had armor saves! Any reason these are different from the sentinels in the standard IG list?

Hoping to get my list on the table soon. The lack of any type of SHT is a little concerning, but not overtly so. After all, I can take titans!

Sentinels should be the same as guard ones, it's a typo.



You can take titans... for now.

I kinda figured it was a typo. Good to know. As for titans, no worries. I almost never take them in 3000 point lists. I DO, however, take SHT's, so get something done

I'll hope to have this list tested by the end of the month.

or follow link
just to let you know some of us are still thinking of you and your big rolling cities

_________________
~Every Tool Is A Weapon, If You Hold It Right~

That land ship looks great. I would love to have something like that for my IG or squats. I have looked all over the interwebs, but i can't find any info on this 'dystopian wars'. There is no section on it on the Spartan Games website.

Is this mini available? Or is it for a game that has not yet been released? Or a game that is no longer in production? Where did it come from?

its a yet to be released thing. this is pretty much 'hot off the presses' sort of deal. so much so, that yeah it seems Spartan Games dont have it up yet

they also have a truly shit-hot looking zepplin aircraft carrier thing, which on top of being damn sexy, is also massive (just over 14 cm long) but that seems like a more c/squat thing (and i didnt want to hijack the thread, so i didnt show that one, or the others) but you can check it out here if you want.
1200th scale steampunk air/sea/land battles. i'm looking forward to it.

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~Every Tool Is A Weapon, If You Hold It Right~

oooh. looking forward to the chapels

Spartan Games makes some phenominal models, but they make them much larger than anything similar. Too bad their games aren't worth the ink they are printed with.

Im going to get a game in tomorrow and am warming up the Adeptus Ministorum v1.2 list. I even assembled all my Sisters finally!

In addition to the Sentinel incorrectly not showing any armor, I think I found another issue with the Lightning fighter.

List 1.3 Imperial Navy shows the "Lightning Interceptor" as having armor 6+ and its Lascannons are AT4+/AA5+.
This AM 1.2 list shows the "Lighning Fighter" as no armor and Twin Lascannons increasing the AA to 4+.

Now that I look at it, I suppose its really not an error, but as an "upgrade"? Is there a chance we can get a choice of the two? For what its worth, I think I'd rather have SOME armor chance rather than none, and I dont like jinking unless I need to.

Tomorrow's battle wont be using any Titans, either, as I dont want to use something that is going to be taken away in the next version

The Lightning rules in the Imperial Navy draft come from the Elysian list, and frankly I don't like them. Lightnings are supposed to be much more lightly armoured than thunderbolts, so "armour -" is what they should have. It also serves as a balancing mechanism for them being Fighters, and their awesome AA interception abilities.

I'm happy with the lightning stats I came up with, they're more background representative than the ones in the Elysian list.

Re: Lightnings being awesome fighters: none of it is going to matter if they cant take a single hit Remember that armor isnt always armor plates, but agility and quickness and other factors as well. Im pretty sure you've said something like this in more than one development thread before yourself.

OK, anyway, while we're on making lists representing fluff:

The Witch Hunters codex gives access to Land Raiders. I know your list doesnt deal with Inquisitor Lords much, but would a "Cardinal" count as one? Fluff-wise I dont know. Im just thinking of allowing 0-1 Land Raider per Inq. Lord taken, and am making the assumption that a Cardinal might be one? If I'm wrong Im not surprised.

In making my list for tomorrow, I spent some time contemplating the difference between Repentia and Arco-Flagellants.

Basically:
250 for 6 Repentia which get a free character for an extra attack gives 6x 4+ MWCC attacks and 1x 4+ CC attack.
300 for 6 A-F units who get 6x 2+ CC attacks, and an Invulnerable save

Both have 5+ armor, both Fearless and both Infiltrator. I cant do math, but it seems against Marines (which is almost all I play against) the Repentia are a no brainer. They should kill 3 units per combat outright, and this doesnt factor in the Mistress' attack. The A-F will hit more (5 times) but kill 2.5 units because of their armor save. Armored units will get their RA rerolls versus A-F but not against the Repentia. And in a list that is sorely lacking in ranged AT firepower, getting up close and personal seems the best way to accomplish this.

In 40K, A-F cost almost twice what Repentia cost (35 instead of 20 per) and can deal an insane amount of armor-save-negating Power Attacks. 6 A-F (max unit size, 210 pts) can get an average of 24 Power Weapon attacks on a charge, while 9 Repentia and their Mistress (mid-sized unit, also 210 pts) can get 22 with the Mistress, although hers arent Power Weapons. However, the A-F can get much less, or MUCH MUCH more than this number, so they are a gamble.

I know why Repentia get MW and A-F dont. I guess I feel the A-F are getting the shaft here, even though, on paper, they have similar look. Maybe against lightly-armored foes, the A-F would be better, but as it stands, I wouldnt take A-F. This is a shame. In 40K, I NEVER took Repentia and ALWAYS took Flagellants. Oh well. Plus, Repentia can get a Priest and Transports, making them much more versatile.

Redemptionists are another semi-useless formation that could be so much cooler. in 40K, a maxed out unit of 20 can have 4 Eviserators (same weapon as the Repentia) plus a Priest who can have one too. How about allowing Redemptionists to take TWO Priest upgrades, neither of which can be a Cardinal? At least then you get 2 MWCC weapons in 10 units. You'd also get 2x Inspiring and Leader, so they'd be fearsome in melee and could shed BMs nicely. This makes sense, fluff-wise, as the first sentence of the paragraph called "Here Comes The Pain" (WD292, p83) says "Death holds no fear for these zealous followers..and it is rare for them to retreat from battle." Basically, theyre going to rally and move forward. Now they might be worth taking. And none of this takes into account their Exterminators, crazy massed one-shot weapons of insanely-fast Initiative death...

Two last things. Lack of AA is really making me consider taking the IG Infantry formation for their Hydras. If Sisters of Battle can add Exorcists to their formation, how come they cant add Hunters instead?

And lastly, Sentinels are the only Scout option for the list. Is that normal for an army list?

Oops: One more thing. Currently, the Immolator is the only unit in the list with a ranged MW attack (Im not looking at Titans). That range is 15cm. The longest non-IG ranged weapon in the list is the Hunter at 60cm (one shot and can only be added to Exorcist formations), and then Exorcists at 45cm. There is no Indirect unit. Are any of the forthcoming War Engines that are supposedly going to be reintroduced going to address this?

NOT COMPLAINING, just analyzing, btw...been really pouring over this list because of my upcoming games, and these are my thoughts. Really looking forward to taking them out, but I almost feel handicapped going into the battle...am I way off?

In some cases, yes, but note that in this case, their better speed and manouverability is represented by being fighters instead of fighter-bombers. Honestly though, thunderbolts can't take a punch either, the difference is minor ingame.



A Cardinal is a high priest of the Ecclesiarchy. Nothing to do with the inquisition. There are no inquisitors in this list at all, so no inquisitorial transports.



I'm happy to look at doing different options with Arcos, but I'd like to see their current stats tested first. Bear in mind that against guard, for example, Arcos will outperform repentia every time.



Redemptionists will be moving to CC4+ in the next version to represent their exterminators and occasional zealots with evicerators. Note that I'm largely working off the more detailed necromunda fluff for them than the more generic 40k zealots.



To encourage taking the Exorcist formation, Fraternis Militia with hydras and Lightnings.



Not hugely unusual, and nothing else in the list really deserves it.



A lack of long-ranged firepower is a deliberate theme and weakness of the list. Sisters like to get close and burn out the sinners, not shell them from beyond the horizon. The war engines will enhance this theme, not provide an easy plug for it. The lack of sisters ranged firepower is also what gives the fraternis militia (and even attached russ) a role in the list.


Note that overall I consider the list to be somewhat underpowered at the moment, as I think building up is a better way to balance a list than making everything awesome and cutting back later.

I agree with this statement.



I have the black-and-yellow spined Necromunda ruleset, recently inherited from a friend. I will crack it open and do some reading. The Sisters were my first 40K army (the Tau my second and last - I HATE 40K lol!) and I played them a lot before I figured out that I couldnt stand the game. 5th edition came out and I gave it one more shot, buying a new army (WTF?!) and figuring out I still hated it, but I do have a soft spot for nuns with guns.

When/if I play a soft army (IG, orcs, etc) I will try A-F instead of Repentia. Any recommendation for models to use as Priests? I used a chainsword-Veteran Sister for the Mistress in with the Repentia, but may need to get me a male Priest-model.

Oh, and I strafed an IG Sentinel formation once, I think with my Eldar Nightwings. The stinking things rolled 3 6's and took no casualties, so Im all for 6+ armor saves, even if they "rarely affect gameplay"

another one for the pile!

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~Every Tool Is A Weapon, If You Hold It Right~

Would you mind making a seperate thread for all those dystopian wars models; they don't have much to do with the ministorum list, and others who have not read this thread may be interested in them too.