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Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2019(Developmental) - Playtesting

 Post subject: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2019(Developmental) - Playtesting
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:26 am 
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Hi,

As the new AC i have reviewed and played version 1.4 by Norto. Good list but lacking some things that make it a unique list. The changes were made from playing the list and reviewing the background.

Changes from 1.4 to 1.5

Army rule change:
For every 1000pts in the army, one unit of Corvus Black Star may Self-Planetfall. (ie 3000pt army can have 3 formation of Corvus Black Star that can Self Planetfall).

List Changes:
-Inquisitorial Warriors are now 1 mandatory choice. Additional formations can be taken as Support Detachments.
-Corvus Black Star are now 75 for 2 and +25 each upto 4 more (ie can take upto 6 CBS).
-Watch Company Detachments are now 4-6 units per formation. The cost/unit does not change.

Stat Changes:
-Corvus Black Star Rocket Launcher is 5+ to hit.

Please test away and post Battle Reports. So we can work towards Final Approval.

Thanks
Kalpesh


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Ordo Xenos - Death Watch V15b.pdf [215.57 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2019(Developmental) - Playtesti
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:23 am 
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comments by another player

I'm slowly building a Deathwatch army to play it with this list, and some doubts came to my mind while checking it:

-Sargeant has a Combat shield weapon that has no impact and no stats. Is it just a fluffy weapon yo justify the 3+ saving throw?

-Veterans, bikes and Terminators are great and I will definitely use them. I can see some use for vanguard assault veterans as they are Veteran bikes that lose the MW tag in their extra attack to get the jump packs.

However I'm not clear on how to use Black shields and Sergeant. Sergeant have 3+ save and better CC, but I cant really find a place for them, as I would prefet either bikes to hit harder or Terminators to save better. They could theoretically make sense as a 6 man BTS, but they cant shoot at all, so they would need Razorbacks to stay useful from afar.

About Black shields, their lore is super cool and fearless is great, so I really want to use them, but again I cant find a use for them. Maybe a fearless BTS? Maybe a squad with 6 Black shields and 2 dreadnoughts deployed as a garrison?
They could ser some use from drop pods, as bikes and vanguard assault veterans can be transported in pods, but 15 movement speed and awful FF feels mediocre, and I would rather use my corvus blackstars for bikes, jump pack Veterans or Terminators if I wanted a heavy hitting melee squad.
Any ideas on how to use them? Cheap blitz holders?

- Chaplain is just the best character, as he gets an extra MW attack and Inspiring, while the other get nothing better than that.
Is the 15cm assault range in the Chaptain's power weapon a typo or is it intentional?
I would consider a character with a FF MW attack like Librarian and possibly Chaptain (if it's not a typo) if I wanted a character in a Veterans squad, as it buffs their FF, but Insping is still probably better than that range MW attack.
Can't the other characters get some love?


-Corvus Blackstar doesnt have a description for the Halo launcher weapon, not even (15cm) Small arms. Is it a fluff weapon again?

- Arvus Lighter doesnt have a range for its Multilaser. I'm assuming it's 30cm like the Chimera's, is that right?

-About Inqusitional warband, I would rather have as extra units instead of replacing warriors, was this change considered? Something like 50 or 75 points for 2 assassins and a transport.

Thanks a lot for your time.

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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2019(Developmental) - Playtesti
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:11 pm 
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chivalrynsorcery wrote:
comments by another player

Yep, that's me.

chivalrynsorcery wrote:
I can see some use for vanguard assault veterans as they are Veteran bikes that lose the MW tag in their extra attack to get the jump packs.

Actually I got it wrong, I want to change that to "vanguard assault veterans are terminators that trade their reinforced armour to be faster and to get jump packs".
They can see some use, as they dont need teleport or corvus to get to melee, and can be deployed from thunderhawks.

chivalrynsorcery wrote:
-About Inqusitional warband, I would rather have as extra units instead of replacing warriors, was this change considered? Something like 50 or 75 points for 2 assassins and a transport.

Here, I meant "I would rather have assassins as extra units instead of replacing warriors".

It would be great if you could check the doubts I asked, especially the ones I consider either typos or fluff weapons.

Thanks a bunch.


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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2019(Developmental) - Playtesti
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:39 pm 
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The current army list in this post has all the misstated information that you were asking about, specifically arvus light fighter, combat shield and Chaplin.


As for the Inquisitorial warband, the formation is consistent with other Inquisition lists. We will leave it as is for now.
Please playtest he current list and let me know how is goes. Changes are inevitable and I see a few I can make from my own play testing, specifically with black shields, however others insight is necessary.

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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2019(Developmental) - Playtesti
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:38 am 
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Thanks for keeping this updated, I have a couple of questions.

Is there any plans to add centurions?

How do you model the black shield units?


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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2019(Developmental) - Playtesti
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:31 am 
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no plans for Centurions, having said that, I did not realize they were part of the Death Watch. I reviewed material online and in books and don't see many references of Centurions playing a critical role in a Death Watch army. Do you have any sources I may have missed.

also Black Shields probably best modeled using a space marine with chainsword. Their may be third party models have something that might work, such as Vanguard miniatures.

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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2019(Developmental) - Playtesti
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:36 am 
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chivalrynsorcery wrote:
no plans for Centurions, having said that, I did not realize they were part of the Death Watch. I reviewed material online and in books and don't see many references of Centurions playing a critical role in a Death Watch army. Do you have any sources I may have missed.

also Black Shields probably best modelled using a space marine with chainsword. There may be third party models have something that might work, such as Vanguard miniatures.



actually you are right double-checking the codex they aren't there.

However, in the codex and fluff, the veteran squads also have options for other heavy weapons including missile launcher. Perhaps it could be an option instead of the heavy bolter only. This would make them feel more like the swiss army knife in the fluff.


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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2019(Developmental) - Playtesti
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:42 pm 
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Also, something else we have realised there's no Titan Legion Battlegroups even though it discusses void shields on the first page?


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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2019(Developmental) - Playtesti
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:56 pm 
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more of an oversight than anything. There are no planned Titan battlegroups for this Army list.

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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2019(Developmental) - Playtesti
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:11 am 
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chivalrynsorcery wrote:
more of an oversight than anything. There are no planned Titan battlegroups for this Army list.


That's fair enough thanks, in a similar vein to the veteran's terminators can also take multiple choices for heavy weapons. Not sure if that's an oversight or by design.


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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2019(Developmental) - Playtesti
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:37 pm 
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so my DW are ready to rock and roll. I'm into doing a set of playtest for this, has one else done the required games so the list can push for approval?

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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2019(Developmental) - Playtesti
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:22 pm 
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For approval we need 18 games played (ie reported on) minimum of 6 games per group of players if possible. I have done 6-8 games with them using the current list. But need more playtesting to get others perspsective on the list and their gaming groups style of playing. The more varied testing the better. Love to hear how it goes. Post Battle reports as you play games.

Thanks
kal

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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2019(Developmental) - Playtesti
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:33 am 
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Got in a game of the deathwatch with scarik, at 3000 points. Wanted to do an initial game and get my legs for the list. I took it at the end of turn three 2-0. I was up against ghazghkull warhorde with 9 activations. Stats wise the list felt great, everything in this list has a function and reason to take. But we did notice some point cost issues. The inquisitorial war bands, I know these are staple for inquisition lists, fell under cost. Dirt cheap garrison formations with high skimmer mobility and 6 stands of scouts(with a character, and the ability to garrison with a hydra) screams exploit me. I barely tried and already felt like I was tying down 400-600 stompa mobs with nothing but 3 warbands. If there gonna have scout the price needs to come up by 25-50 points possibly 75. Same goes for the kill teams, the base formation is to cheap. They are packing more heat in firefight than base marine tac formations and that's just with 4 vets and rhinos. Yeah they get shot to shit cause they're small, but that glass cannon fire power is really easy to abuse given the cheapness of the formation. If it just tries to mimic a tac formation which is 350 points, with 12 shots at 4+ in firefight. On top of that the self planetfall gives you an ease of access to be able to suddenly engage your opponent.

Now after all that being said, I like everything else and give it two thumbs up. I like the corvus having self planetfall, but in the case of it being with marines this needs to be limited in some capacity. On top of that, there should be an upper limit on terminators, 6 actual space marine terminators in a formation, which you can easily fit multiple of in one 3k army. Have these topics been discussed before? If not, I'm gonna test my idea at the coming new england game meet up and i'll bring a proper report setup with me and get a battle report in trying to exploit the large amount of cheap scouts in the list.

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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2019(Developmental) - Playtesti
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:22 am 
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I want to add bandwidth to kingzog.

My first impression of the list was that it felt like an Ordo Xenos list and not Deathwatch. When I think of Deathwatch I think of a veteran Marine Chapter. I think of Kill Teams and Dark Hunter frigates.

The warbands felt really out of place and they gave the list a capability that other Marine lists don't have. I think they can work in a list but the fluff isn't Deathwatch.

Nitty gritty I think over all the stats are fair but a few units need to cost more. If KZ had one fewer activation then things would have been much more fair.


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 Post subject: Re: Ordo Xenos - Death Watch 2019(Developmental) - Playtesti
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:16 pm 
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Thanks for playtesting the list. If you could write up a battle report and provide your list you used would be helpful to see different builds.

Okay, let me see if i can help with some of the concerns/questions you both had.

I wasnt too familiar with the Death Watch, though I do like the Inquisition theme. So I did some research online and from some printed books on Death Watch(DW). Based on that I came to the conclusion that the DW were more a navy seal type of army. The DW never was the first one on the scene or initiating battle, they were usually called upon when the Inquisitiion needed assistance. Normal chapter would not be called but DW would be and they would come via air or land. So I approached the list this way. The list was playtested by the previous Army Champion but never fully fleshed out and made to work at the then current form.
I added some tweaks to make them more like DW.

One of the drawbacks was units of only four, that would not provide the proper firepower or survivability. Though some units had more attacks they still had 4+ saves, so the odds were not in their favor. Plus they cost more than the same size Marine units. This led me to give the option to increase the unit size upto 6. This made formations bigger, cost more and proper size to fight almost any enemy formation. This gave you options to play around with different size formations were you could also mix in different kill team units for different roles.

The Corvus Black Star(CBS) is a cool model (in 40K) and instead of making it just another skimmer I wanted to make it the main DW delivery system to replicate coming in fast, on target and ready for battle. This is where i added the Self Planetfall(SFP) to the special rules for CBS. Every full 1000pts gets you the ability to Self Planetfall with CBS.

Now I know SPF has it detractors and many players dont like it, a kin to abusing the Epic system, but by putting limits on its use I think that argument goes out the window, especially when you consider the DW full list.

The Inquisitorial warband are designed to replicate the Inquisition going into hotspots to eradicate Xenos and finding out they need more support. As stated earlier DW are called upon to situations and need to arrive quickly and ready for battle. The Xenos are their to provide coordinates and to hold the enemy till the DW can arrive and cleanse the area. I can see you point about scouts and Arvus but really they are weak in combat, weak in saves. Take down one arvus and they are walking. They wont win a battle but can hold up a formation or two for a turn.

So thats how I approached the DW. As for changes I think they are doable to a certain extent. Limiting terminators could be an option though 4 of them cost 350 pts more than Chapter terminators. The Inquisitorial warband price is based on other Xeno lists. I kept it the same because this is done with other units in other armies (ie Eldar formations are costed the same in most of their lists). Limiting SFP even more maybe down to 2 in a 3k game is possible.

Please play more with the current list against other armies and see what happens. Results will change but where they accurate and reasonable based on your opponents army and style of play.


Thanks
Kal

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