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Horus Heresy Era Armylists?

 Post subject: Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:00 pm 
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The Sons of Horus were the Luna Wolves - They changed their name and colors, but retained all their units.  So they will have power armor troops, etc.

Titans were not part of the marine legions.  They were their own entity, under the command of the Adeptus Mechanicus - which is the only "non-imperium" human society allowed to survive, and only because they accepted the Emperor as an imbodiment of the "Machine God".

Heres a list of titan legions both loyal and traitor:
http://www.scholaprogenium.com/legions.html

Note that over half of the titan legions turned - so maybe they should be cheaper for the traitors.

One thing the marines did have then, that they dont now is their own war fleets.  They no longer have anything outside their own strike craft.  This was done to prevent any future rebelions from possessing the transport ability that the traitors enjoyed.  Now all military transport falls under the command of the Imperial Navy.

One thing to remember is that the traitors will look more or less like loyal marines.  Only a few powerful individuals had anything in the way of demonic gifts.  All that stuff kicked in once they fled to the Eye of Terror.

Usually the only way to tell if a legion had turned to Horus was the display of the eye of horus on banners and such instead of the imperial eagle.

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 Post subject: Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:51 pm 
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I commented on the ones I disagreed on.  Everything else, I agree on.  

Assault Squads - Yes, but keep in mind that jetpacks are uncommon (and that they use Raptor packs as opposed to the newer ones).  You need a ground-based CC choice as well.  GROUND based assault choices are common as dirt, but the flying ones are rarish.  Only the Night Lords have very many.  
Bike Squads - Maybe? - Most definitely.  White Scars, man.  And Chaos has them even today.  
Attack Bikes - Maybe? - More questionable.  I'd say no, since Chaos doesn't have 'em.  
Heavy Jetbikes - Maybe? - Pick either this or the Land Speeder, not both.  I'd have them be the same anyway.  
Razorback - Maybe? - No.  Chaos doesn't have it, and C:SM 5e says it antedates the Heresy.  
Predator Destructor - Maybe? - Yes, with the option for either HB or LC sponsons.  
Predator Annihilator - Maybe? - No.  The Space Wolves invented this post-heresy.  Prior to that, no TLLCs in the turret.  
Vindicator - Maybe? - According to 5e, invented during the heresy fighting.  The IW had access to it.  I'd say yes.  
Whirlwind - No? - Yes.  Despite contradictory fluff, it was available in Space Marine.  
Whirlwind Hyperios - No? - I'd say a provisional yes.  They need an AA chassis.  
Landing Craft - Maybe? - Sure, why not.

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 Post subject: Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:46 pm 
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Thanks all, I've updated the lists given your suggestions.

I'll chuck up a AdMech list later, though they seem unchanged.

I am right in thinking Chimera's where created sometime after the Heresy no? Everyone used Rhino's at that point?

Also I hear of something called a 'Spartan'?


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 Post subject: Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:06 pm 
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OK, a couple of very simple statements can be made from looking at some facts from the SM1 rulebook: 1. The Sons of Horus use power armor just like any other chapters (look at the artwork!) 2. jump pack marines dont seem to be uncommon. Both traitors and loyalists use them pretty much as marines do in current rules; the same goes if you look at the marine army lists for sm1 in WD 126, where you can choose "any number" of assault detachments (NB that list is clearly meant to be used for both loyalists and traitors); assault troops do clearly have jump packs (e g p. 40 SM1 rules)

There are also in the WD126 army lists an odd battalion HQ formation which consists of 1 commander, 2 assault stands, 1 land raider and 2 land speeders (!); these are 3 different detachments however

Land Speeders also come in 2 types of detachment: recon (2 speeders) and regular (5 speeders)

And lets not forget that there were 3 different types of dreadnought




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 Post subject: Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:12 am 
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Parzval:
Dude.  Read some fluff from something OTHER than Space Marine.  

For example, ANY of the recent Chaos Space Marine codices, where they discuss Raptors, the rarity of jump troops in the heresy, and how the only reason Imperial troops have such packs today is that they found an STC of another kind of pack.  

Times have changed more than a little.

It's not the fact that no one on this forum seems to read anything GW produced after Space Marine or possibly Epic 2e, it's that people still think they're up-to-date...:P

To the OP:

The RT era LR could not carry Terminators.  The LR Spartan was a conversion so it could.  

I'm not sure about Chimeras.  I'm 99% certain they're post-heresy.  http://www.throneofskulls.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=634 - that has a bit on vehicles etc.  

In regard to Chaos, I suspect it would be best to basically have them be Loyalists with certain advantages (give the Loyalists some, too).  

Chaos would have:
Chosen - Yes.  Though, like you said...
Possessed - Yes.  Chaos seems to corrupt pretty quick in the Heresy.  
Obliterators - Definitely not, IMO.  That's a BIG mutation, really quick.  Also, IIRC, the Chaos codex mentions the centuries and millenia in the EoT as being responsible for this.  
Berserkers - Yes.  The WE already basically were in many cases.  
Noise Marines - I'd say yes.  
Plague Marines - Yes.  Read the Death Guard IA for more info.  They become totally corrupt v. quickly.  
For the 1K Sons...work something out.  One option would be to give each unit free Sorcerors until they cost as much as the other Cult troops.  

Everything else, you seem to be right about.  Keep in mind I haven't looked at the lists I don't mention.




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 Post subject: Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:48 am 
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Hmm, so what to call the Land Raider to differentiate it from its modern counterpart?

Land Raider Mk.I?

Final list as I can't say I know enough about the Dark Mechanicus to do a separate one.

Adeptus Mechanicus/Tech Guard
Praetorian Combat Servitors - Yes
Skitarii Hypasists - Yes
Skitarii Sagitarii - Yes
Skitarii Jump-Jet Troops? - Maybe?
Thudd Guns - Yes
Rapier Laser Destroyers - Yes
Tarantulas - Yes
Mole Mortars - Yes
Robots - Yes
Sentinels - Yes
Leman Russ - Yes
Rhinos - Yes
Chimera - No
Hellhound - Maybe?
Hydra - Maybe?
Griffon - Maybe?
Land Raider - Maybe?
Knight Baron - Yes?
Knight Paladin - Yes?
Knight Errant - Maybe?
Knight Lancer - Yes?
Knight Castellan - Maybe?
Knight Crusader - Maybe?
Knight Warden - Yes?
Ordinatus Armageddon - No
Ordinatus Golgotha - No
Ordinatus Mars - Yes
Capital Imperialis - Yes
Leviathan - Maybe?
Termite - Yes
Mole - Yes
Hellbore - Yes
Warhound Titans - Yes
Reaver Titans - Yes
Warlord Titans - Yes
Emperor Titans - Yes

I also updated the Traitor Legions list, to reflect them being more in line with Loyalist ones at this point. When you said 'Praetorians' Warmaster where you referring to the Servitor troops or the likes of Leviathans, CIs and Hellbores?





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 Post subject: Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:37 pm 
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I'd recommend just giving all LRs modern statistics - Chaos has access to relatively modern LRs, and the MkI was superseded before the heresy.  It's best abstracted away...

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 Post subject: Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:41 pm 
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Ordinatus Armageddon and Golgotha would not be present: They're related to the ork wars with Ghazghkull.

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 Post subject: Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:04 pm 
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These links might be helpful:

Pre-Heresy Vehicles and War Machines

Pre-Heresy Titan Legions(They were organised the same as they are in 40K)

Marines DO have scouts - there are a number of examples in the HH Artbooks, both in power armour and in scout armour.

The Emperor's Children started using Noise Marines just before Istvaan V (see Fulgrim). The Death Guard became Plague Marines on their way to the Siege of Terra - prior to this Plague Marines didn't exist.

Jetpacks were less common than they are in 40K, but still used fairly extensively by plenty of Legions, not just the Night Lords.





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 Post subject: Horus Heresy Era Armylists?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:26 pm 
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Heres a thread to a guy building a stormbird in 28mm - the standard marine transport before the thunderhawk became common.

LINK

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