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E:A rewrite project

 Post subject: E:A rewrite project
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:26 pm 
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(pixelgeek @ Aug. 08 2007,00:31)
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(Tas @ Aug. 06 2007,23:26)
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It is entirely nugatory work.

Sorry but I just don't get your point at all.

EA is a GW product.  The whole EA system is their IP.  Argue as much as you like but thats the legal point of view.  The book is copyrighted. Taking out specific words like Eldar, Nurgle etc doesnt remove the IP.  You are still talking about stealing IP.

If you think giving it a new name and removing key words will keep the hounds off your back, you are fooling yourself

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 Post subject: E:A rewrite project
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:55 pm 
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Just a thought, but I would think that threads like this would be enough to show intent to mess with IP which may be enough to bring the wolves to the door.  Im no lawyer, but it may be wiser to have a select group of people behind closed doors work on this rather than advertise intents to remove IP from GW goods.  

Not that im against the intention by any means, just I would urge caution for fear of bringing down the law.  Hopefully however this will light fires under the ERC as there seems no reason what so ever for us to still be waiting for what appear to be done and dusted revisions to the rules.

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 Post subject: E:A rewrite project
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:09 pm 
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Hi!

I feel qualified to weigh in here since these issues were present and discussed at netepics birth.

First off certain terms may be copyrighted, but game mechanics are not. Thus, IF E:A is TOTALLY REWRITTEN, even if the game mechanics are the same its not infringement. Also if doing the re-write, all IP terms are "changed" such as calling SM, "powered armored dudes!" or some such, even though the end result is the same, it does not infringe, since the IP terms are not there.

The reason I know a little about these things is back when netepic was born, we were ready to rewrite ALL GW IP terms in our own terms. We had already rewritten the rules (and it its version 1.0 there was little real difference from the GW SM 2nd edition rules), so we did not infringe in that sense. Since GW never seemed to have a problem with netepic, we never bothered to change there IP terms (eldar, orks and such) and left them as is. But if they ever did ask for them to be removed, they would be and new terms used.

Netepic is has been here for more than 10 years and we HAVE been looked over by GW.. and have passed the "taste test". Mind you they have been "kind" in letting us continue to use their IP terms, but as far as game mechanics they cant touch us.

In Essense, if PG fully rewrites the rules and eliminates IP usage, in the LEGAL sense he is fine.

HOWEVER, I take the time to clearly point out that one thing is to follow the letter of the law and another avoiding a suit.

Even if PG does all the right things right and in legality is doing the right thing, this does NOT mean GW could not sue him jut to apply pressure and make him desist.

Its not fair of course, but its DONE ALL THE TIME IN REAL LIFE.

Of course, GW would balance what they have to gain versus the bad press such a move may engender, but then again sometimes game companies do very weird things.

It would be no surprise that I support PG's move to take control of the rules and send GW to heck. But I hope PG knows what a gargantuan task he is going to undertake and hope he has a group of people to give him a hand.

Good Luck!!

Primarch

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 Post subject: E:A rewrite project
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:54 am 
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Nice explanation there Primarch.

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 Post subject: E:A rewrite project
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:13 am 
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Thanks P, I appreciate the benefit of your experience.
I agree that removing all that IP would be a sod of a job, for not much benefit.  
Unless it was to commercialise the final product, which would be questionable.

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 Post subject: E:A rewrite project
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:56 am 
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(primarch @ Aug. 08 2007,00:09)
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Of course, GW would balance what they have to gain versus the bad press such a move may engender, but then again sometimes game companies do very weird things.


GW has recently proven very clearly that their current management doesn't give **** about bad press.

Damnatus anyone?

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 Post subject: E:A rewrite project
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:24 pm 
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(Tas @ Aug. 07 2007,23:13)
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I agree that removing all that IP would be a sod of a job, for not much benefit.

Its actually surprisingly easy. I have a version with all their IP removed already. Its used in the examples, in the fluff sections and in the army lists. The examples in section 2 also make references to GW IP but those were easy to remove as well.

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 Post subject: E:A rewrite project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:52 am 
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So you can't copyright rules? Really? You can with algorithms, why not these things?

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 Post subject: E:A rewrite project
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:26 am 
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(The_Real_Chris @ Oct. 31 2007,03:52)
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So you can't copyright rules? Really? You can with algorithms, why not these things?

Hi!

Because you can only copyright the physical form of the rules you write, as in I couldn't just do a copy paste of your rules and publish them. I could however use your work as inspiration, REWRITE the rules in my own words and it would be okay (even when mechanistically speaking they came out virtually the same), because you cannot copyright an idea (i.e game mechanics), just a certain manifestation (a physical hard copy) of an idea.

Mind you copyright laws are mired in "legaleese" and contradictory stuff. EVEN if you adhere to the letter of the law that is NO PROTECTION versus a lawsuit.

In our litigious society anyone can sue anyone for anything. It has more to do with who has more money than who is "in the right". Sad but true.

Primarch

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 Post subject: E:A rewrite project
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:16 pm 
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Damnatus is a special case, and while it sucks, they really didn't have a choice thanks to German copyright laws.


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