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Horus Heresy for epic
daemonknight
 Post subject: Horus Heresy for epic
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:48 pm 
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I am sure that someone was thinking of this but I was wondering if anyone did a Horus Heresy game for epic?  I thought it would be cool to do the Seige of Terra but it seems a bit hard with the primarchs (well not the traitor primarchs, they actually got stats and models) perhaps on par with greater daemons but what about the Emperor? Anyways, anyone has ideas?
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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Horus Heresy for epic
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:52 am 
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Actually, the first edition of 'Epic', Space Marine, was created to recreate the events of the Heresy.  

While to my knowledge the Emperor never really fought, except on Horus' battlebarge, the rest of the Primarchs fought.  I'd try using the stats for a Greater Daemon, but without the Summoning rules.  After all, what is that line from the Chaos Codex?  'Only the Primarchs of old were there equal in power'?

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daemonknight
 Post subject: Horus Heresy for epic
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:12 pm 
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(Lion in the Stars @ Jul. 18 2006,06:52)
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Actually, the first edition of 'Epic', Space Marine, was created to recreate the events of the Heresy.  

While to my knowledge the Emperor never really fought, except on Horus' battlebarge, the rest of the Primarchs fought.  I'd try using the stats for a Greater Daemon, but without the Summoning rules.  After all, what is that line from the Chaos Codex?  'Only the Primarchs of old were there equal in power'?

YEah but making the loyalist primarchs like dorn, khan, and leman russ all unique and different is a bit tough well except sang who can fly and black rage.
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Legion 4
 Post subject: Horus Heresy for epic
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:33 am 
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Yep ... SM1 was about the Heresy ! The Golden Days of Epic ! :D

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Mojarn Piett
 Post subject: Horus Heresy for epic
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:23 am 
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Well, I've heard that the whole Heresy thing was specifically invented for Adeptus Titanicus as, back then, GW couldn't afford to make injection plastic mold for two different types of titan. Hance they needed an explanation for why the same titans were fighting on both sides.  :D

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Enderel
 Post subject: Horus Heresy for epic
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:11 am 
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(Mojarn Piett @ Jul. 19 2006,08:23)
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Well, I've heard that the whole Heresy thing was specifically invented for Adeptus Titanicus as, back then, GW couldn't afford to make injection plastic mold for two different types of titan. Hance they needed an explanation for why the same titans were fighting on both sides. ?:D

How far they have come these days with regards to models and how far they have fallen with regards to originality......  :(  (Then again they were never that original in the first place!)

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Horus Heresy for epic
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:42 pm 
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(Mojarn Piett @ Jul. 19 2006,08:23)
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Well, I've heard that the whole Heresy thing was specifically invented for Adeptus Titanicus as, back then, GW couldn't afford to make injection plastic mold for two different types of titan. Hance they needed an explanation for why the same titans were fighting on both sides. ?:D

I've heard that, too. It does make sense. I'm not sure if it was Jervis who said it, but I do remember reading that fluff was/is written to agree with the games, not the other way around.

As for originality, we all know that GW rips off history continually, especially for names.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Horus Heresy for epic
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:59 pm 
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Jervis has stated it several times.  The CSM list was originally going to be without any titans at all and would have all original WEs.  He cited the fact that the history had been manufactured solely for production purposes as a good reason that it could be discarded if desired.

Even after massive outcry he stuck with just the Banelord as the only chaos titan for a long time.  I think he only backed off when he began to feel the breeze blowing and realized SG was going to get dramatically downsized.

=======

As far as Primarch stats, I would be far more inclined to use the Daemon Prince stats from the Black Legion list.  The Greater Daemon stats would definitely be over the top.  None of the Primarchs were towering DC3 monstrosities at the time of the Heresy.

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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Horus Heresy for epic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:18 am 
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But the Primarchs could go mano-a-mano with one and win.  They were actually pretty evenly matched.  Remember the story about the fight between Sanguinius and the Bloodthirster?

Horus, and his brother primarchs, stood over Astartes the way that Astartes stand above Guardsmen.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Horus Heresy for epic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:23 pm 
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(Lion in the Stars @ Jul. 20 2006,07:18)
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But the Primarchs could go mano-a-mano with [a greater daemon] and win.  They were actually pretty evenly matched.  Remember the story about the fight between Sanguinius and the Bloodthirster?

I thought that had been changed to a Khornate daemon prince in later versions.

Even if I'm mistaken, Greater Daemons have definitely been changed in the background from something a daemon prince could rival to massive demi-gods since that story was originally published.  The GD stats in the Black Legion list are based on the later, demi-god status and vastly outstrip any portrayal of GDs published by GW in any other game system.

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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Horus Heresy for epic
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:33 am 
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I'm pretty sure it was a Bloodthirster, as I remember the story saying that Sang flew up to meet the beast in midair, where they fought.  The beast cast Sang to the ground, leaving a crater where he fell.  The Chaos onlookers roared, as they thought that they had won (Sang was pretty much single-handedly holding either a gate or a breach).  Then Sang stood up, battered and bloody, grabbed the beast in an awesome display of power, with a nimbus of light playing around his head, broke it's back over his knee and then cast its lifeless corpse into the chaos onlookers.  I'll have to figure out where that story came from.  Maybe Codex:  Angels of Death, maybe Codex:  Blood Angels, maybe HHv2.  It could also have been in the Index Astartes: Blood Angels.  I just don't remember the source, but it's a great story... The more I think about it, the more I'm sure it's in the Index Astartes entry for the BA.

Nevertheless, that story mentioned that the fight was so awesome that it stopped all other fighting around it.

My comment about 'only the Primarchs of old were their equal in power' came from Codex:  Chaos Space Marines (the 2nd chaos 'dex from 3rd edition), so I still think that a Primarch should be that insanely powerful.  Add a special rule that he can't be targeted by orbital attacks (as an exception to the WE rule), and you should be golden.  

Of course, you're also talking about the Primarchs never leading less than 3 pre-heresy companies (600+marines, and that was an extremely unusual situation), usually only taking the field when they were leading their entire LEGION  (20,000+ marines, plus Imperial Army, plus Titan support) into battle.

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vanvlak
 Post subject: Horus Heresy for epic
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:27 am 
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Funny - the back-breaking bit is familiar - anyone remember the battle between an Eldar Avatar and a Keeper of Secrets in the central story in 'Renegades', the Eldar and Chaos supplement for Epic SM 2?

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primarch
 Post subject: Horus Heresy for epic
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:29 am 
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(Mojarn Piett @ Jul. 19 2006,03:23)
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Well, I've heard that the whole Heresy thing was specifically invented for Adeptus Titanicus as, back then, GW couldn't afford to make injection plastic mold for two different types of titan. Hance they needed an explanation for why the same titans were fighting on both sides. ?:D

Hi!

Hehe, this is SO GW....  :;):

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Mojarn Piett
 Post subject: Horus Heresy for epic
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:12 am 
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(Lion in the Stars @ Jul. 22 2006,09:33)
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I'm pretty sure it was a Bloodthirster, as I remember the story saying that Sang flew up to meet the beast in midair, where they fought.  The beast cast Sang to the ground, leaving a crater where he fell.  The Chaos onlookers roared, as they thought that they had won (Sang was pretty much single-handedly holding either a gate or a breach).  Then Sang stood up, battered and bloody, grabbed the beast in an awesome display of power, with a nimbus of light playing around his head, broke it's back over his knee and then cast its lifeless corpse into the chaos onlookers.  I'll have to figure out where that story came from.  Maybe Codex:  Angels of Death, maybe Codex:  Blood Angels, maybe HHv2.  It could also have been in the Index Astartes: Blood Angels.  I just don't remember the source, but it's a great story... The more I think about it, the more I'm sure it's in the Index Astartes entry for the BA.

At lest the story was in the manual of the old Horus Heresy boargame (in the same series as battle for Armageddon and Doom of Eldar). That's where I read it anyway. And yes, it was a Bloodthirster.

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Enderel
 Post subject: Horus Heresy for epic
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:00 pm 
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Yeah it was definately included in the Horus Heresy cardboard based game and I think it was also in Codex - Angels of Death as GW seemed to like to create more background depth for their models then!

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