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IG BAR/SAW

 Post subject: IG BAR/SAW
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:17 am 
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I keep thinking that the IG need something between the heavy Bolter and the trusty MArk 1 fashlight, aka the lasgun.  

Soemthing like a WWII BAR for the IG.  

How to you guys imagine such a squad automatic weapon would look for the IG.  

Either a rapid firing lasgun

Or a scaled down heavy bolter.  

I was thinking of converting a few for my 40K IG but I wanted to brainstorm some ideas.

What to do think.


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 Post subject: IG BAR/SAW
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 7:14 am 
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Storm Bolter?

First option would be an overgrown 'flashlight', although a BAR actually fired the same .30-06 that an M1 Garand did.  The 'ideal' SAW would be a rapid-fire version of the standard Lasgun, with a larger magazine.  I'd make a standard lasgun, give it a longer, heavier (and interchangeable*) barrel, bipod, and a (much) larger magazine, maybe even a power cord leading to a backpack to simulate a belt feed.

(* - represented by a spare barrel or two on the Assistant gunner)

Next option would be a storm bolter or combibolter (although that's more like an M16/M203 than a SAW).

********

I'd kicked around an idea for an IG army with very few ballistic weapons.  No Autocannons, Heavy Bolters would be modeled as multilasers, few MLs, etc.

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 Post subject: IG BAR/SAW
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:11 pm 
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You mean like a Heavy Stubber?

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 Post subject: IG BAR/SAW
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:32 pm 
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How about the heavy stu...?

Yeah, what he said.


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 Post subject: IG BAR/SAW
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:46 pm 
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Yep, a Heavy Stubber  ... Lion make good points also.   But you are going to have to decide if it's a Laser or Ballistic. As the design would be different, obviously.  I think a Hvy Stb, would look like a futuristic M249 SAW ...  A Larger mag, and bipod, possibly with longer/bigger barrel would be a good place to start.

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 Post subject: IG BAR/SAW
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:50 pm 
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Except that the Heavy Stubber isn't an option for the IG in 40k, except as a pintle-mounted weapon on a vehicle.  For modeling opportunity, a notably different Lasgun would be better anyway.

Also, it means that there's yet another type of ammunition in the supply pipeline.  With a 'BAR' - type lasgun, it could be set up to use either the standard lasgun powerpack for that Regiment, or a larger powerpack like what a Lascannon uses (ideally, it'd use both, like the M249 SAW/FN Minimi can).

Fluff-wise (and a bit of history), a 'Squad Automatic Weapon' should fire the same round as the standard infantry weapon (BAR and M1 Garand were .30-06, M249 and M16 are 5.56mm).  This simplifies logistics tremendously, something that's even more important when your supply lines are light-years in length (which Gaunt's Ghosts novel was it where the Tanith regiment couldn't get the proper powerpacks?  Straight Silver?).  The early M14s were essentially lighter versions of the BAR (same basic design, just fired a slightly smaller round, 7.62x51mm instead of 7.62x58?mm), but were too light to really be controllable in burst fire.  However, that still effectively gave every rifleman a 'BAR', and then the squad Machinegunner carried the beast (M60 light machine gun).  The M60 is NOT a SAW, it's always been considered a Light Machine Gun (Heavy Stubber or Heavy Bolter in 40k terms), even though it fired the same cartridge as the M14 (an M60 is capable of some pretty extended periods of sustained fire, with the easily exchangeable barrel, while SAWs are generally not, since the barrel on an M249 needs to be unscrewed.  That's not easy to do, especially when the barrel's over 250*F!).

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 Post subject: IG BAR/SAW
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 7:28 pm 
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Good report, Lion ! Yes, you "done your Homework" ! ?I've humped an M-14, M-16, M-203, M60 and M-249 ! ? And use an '03 and M1 Garand in D&C. ?And Ammo standarization is an important point. ?Just to give you guys an idea what a US Mech Inf Squad carried back when I commanded a Mech Co.('87-'89), Alpha Tm - 1 M203, 1 M249 SAW, 1 M60 MG, 2 M16s, Bravo Tm - same Alpha but an M47 MAW instead of an M60 ... + an M2 .50 cal on the M113 APC. And the SL carried an M16 ... There is almost more firepower there than a WWII Armored Inf Plt. ?And the M2 was the same beast/pig/hog used in WWII ! ? Just some FYI ! :D ? I like to reminisce as it is Veteran's Day ! LOL ! ?:;):

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 Post subject: IG BAR/SAW
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:33 pm 
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I thought of the heavy stubber too but considered it too big.  

In my mind the heavy stubber would be the equivilant of the browing 30 cal light machine gun used by US troops in WWII.  

The heavy Bolter would be like a HMG or 50 cal.

The BAR is smaller than the 30 cal light Machine gun.  

So an over sized Lasgun seemed like the right idea.  

Now I'm not saying that I won;t convert some stubber teams anyway.


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 Post subject: IG BAR/SAW
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:47 pm 
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Which is why you want to join the Dark Side...

Traitors can have heavy stubbers. In fact, 5 traitors with a heavy bolter and a heavy stubber or a sniper rifle can make for a nice cheap, annoying, infiltrating unit. Of course, with Ld6 they're not going to stick around if shot at, but hey - they're just scum!


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 Post subject: IG BAR/SAW
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:35 pm 
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Oversized Lasgun: A Hellgun probably fits the bill best.

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 Post subject: IG BAR/SAW
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:47 am 
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I've always figured the H. Stubber to be the equivalent to the Ma Deuce as there's no real equivalent to bolters/heavy bolters that I know of today.  That and the heavy stubber in the tank sprues looks rather similar to a .50 cal HMG.  Now if the damn things would just stop snapping off.

As far as the intent of the thread, giving the IG basically a SAW, I'd go with the Hellgun.  Same type of weapon and they already exist in the game and fluff.  That or 100mph tape two flashlights together! :) LOL

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 Post subject: IG BAR/SAW
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:48 pm 
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Yep, I thought the Heavy Stub on the 40K IG AFVs look a lot like Ma Deuce ! ? And the Hellgun would basically fill the bill, for a SAW. Since many of the IG use Las-weapons ... However, it is a big Galaxy ... :D




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 Post subject: IG BAR/SAW
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:24 am 
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(Legion 4 @ Nov. 13 2006,00:48)
QUOTE
Yep, I thought the Heavy Stub on the 40K IG AFVs look a lot like Ma Deuce !   And the Hallgun would basically fill the bill, for a SAW. Since many of the IG use Las-weapons ... However, it is a big Galaxy ... :D

See pics of Krieg heavy stubber team here.

Just scroll down the page. Looks pretty big to me.  :O

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 Post subject: IG BAR/SAW
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:12 pm 
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Wow !  Looks like a WWII German 20mm or Soviet ZPU !  Raise some Hell with that ! Wish to see that in 6mm !  :D

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 Post subject: IG BAR/SAW
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:40 pm 
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If the purpose of the SAW is suppression, allowing fire teams to maneuver into an assault position, then would the Hellgun work?  What's its suppressive capability (not being a 40K player)?

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