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Plastic Infantry & transports sprue, crowdfunding.

 Post subject: Re: Plastic Infantry & transports sprue, crowdfunding.
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:32 am 
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mordoten wrote:
I´m also veeeery interested in seeing aliens slave-workers!! Thoose are very hard to find usually!

They're probably priority number 1 for extra sculpts, and if not on the plastic sprue then definitely in metal.

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 Post subject: Re: Plastic Infantry & transports sprue, crowdfunding.
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:38 am 
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Now added to the IGG page: "If as we unlock further stretch goals, you want to change your pledge over from the early mixed sprue to a different plastic sprue, you'll be able to do that."

Meaning if you pledge now, but later want to change your pledge over to an all-humans (5x sprues each containing 55 humans & 4 APC's) sprue, then that'd be fine.

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 Post subject: Re: Plastic Infantry & transports sprue, crowdfunding.
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:59 am 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
Nitpick wrote:
Evil and Chaos wrote:
Nitpick wrote:
Actually, why not team up with some of the excellent laser cutting alternatives to bases? Fenris games do some mean bases.

Very expensive per base and you couldn't get the little dimples on the bases, you'd have to cut actual holes.

As noted before, splitting the bases off from the sprues is a high priority once/if we get funded.
It's all about priorities - first get the basics in place, then stretch for the cool stuff.


Are you sure the bases are that expensive?

Yes, laser cut are the the most expensive on a per-base basis. Especially if you're having two base sized things cut and sticking them together to make each base (double the cost instantly).

Fenris games sells 25mm round laser cut ply bases with dimples (they're made from two 0.8mm layers of wood) and they charge £7.95 for 50 which seems reasonable to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Plastic Infantry & transports sprue, crowdfunding.
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 10:12 am 
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That's 16p per base.

EW charge 12.5p per base - we want to be charging the same or less by the time we get to splitting off the bases sprue (9p-10p per base would be an ideal target).

There's no way we could do that if we were buying in bases from Fenris (even with standard trade discount we be selling them at a loss if we were selling them at 12.5p per base, most likely. At best we'd make half a penny per base sold, which is just unsupportable as a business model - you'd have to sell out every base you ever bought in as stock in order to make twenty quid in profit... inflation would eat that profit by the time you made it!).

We will split off the bases - if we get the funding - but if we don't then we'll have this cool combined armies sprue that'll be great for beginners and useful for veterans... and importantly the bases that come with the sprue will be visually distinct (legally this is an important consideration I'm sure you can dig that).

Regardless, profits we make from this set will get ploughed back long term, and we'll have paid for much of the basic costs, so long term there *will* be separate sprues for infantry & bases (as long as the basic funding level is reached, at least). This is all about serving the community (both new players & old players) in the most cost-efficient manner possible...

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 Post subject: Re: Plastic Infantry & transports sprue, crowdfunding.
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 10:55 am 
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Basing issue seems sensible to me – and as a 'veteran', having access to plastic round bases will be very welcome.

Is it possible for you to add metal sprues as additional purchases? As a brief example, you might do the following options for the humans:
Heavy weapon metal sprue (five heavy/support/special weapons)
Command metal sprue (five commanders/banners/sinister robed chaps)
Alternate poses (five alternate poses)

For the axewielders:
Slaves (five runty slaves)
Alpha males (five big tough guys)
Alternate poses (five alternate poses)

You wouldn't necessarily need to provide bases, as the bases for 'the other side' could be used.

Critically, this approach would let you show off the models you'd like to add to the plastic sprue, given sufficient funding. It would also encourage people to boost their donation to enhance the plastic sprues they already get.

For example, If I decide that I want to play with the aliens, I might be more tempted to pledge more if I can immediately buy twenty slaves and twenty alternate poses (e.g. 8 additional sprues) to mix in with the poses. I'll have plenty of bases to use as I'm not using the humans.

If these sprues could be offered at £1.50 each or something, I think you'd get a big boost in interest – and donations. If that means you get enough to fund splitting the sprues, all the better – the metal add-ons then become an even better option, as our hypothetical alien player (HAP) can opt for (plastic) sprues of just aliens as his initial pledge, and get some separate base sprues for the metals for which he's already pledged.

If the campaign is particularly successful, and all of the new sculpts (originally the metal upgrades) are included on the plastic sprues, the funds the HAP has pledged for the metals can be swapped out for more of the plastic sprues.

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Last edited by Apologist on Wed May 15, 2013 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Plastic Infantry & transports sprue, crowdfunding.
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 11:01 am 
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Metal sprues will be happening, partially as previews of the kind of thing we'd like to do with plastic stretch goals - and they will be unlocked as we pass the £2250 mark.

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 Post subject: Re: Plastic Infantry & transports sprue, crowdfunding.
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 1:55 pm 
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Hi, I joined to give some feedback on this. I've backed for the time being but I really think you should listen to the backers about the bases. Almost every single comment is about the bases which should tell you something.

I understand that you want to make your own unique game out of this and that the bases are an integral part of that. Unfortunately most people will be looking to expand their 6mm collections for other games. While plastic bases are very nice to have, more minis are better. Bases can be MDF add-ons, or rendera plastics easily enough (as others have pointed out). You don't even really need the dimples in them, the individual model bases aren't that noticeable when sand and flock has been glued on. The bases are taking up a ridiculous amount of sprue space which could be used to almost double the amount of infantry, or add another vehicle or two to the sprue.

Let's give an example. Mantic makes alternative plastic miniatures that can easily be used for Warhammer Fantasy. Their game, Kings of War, uses fixed unit bases rather than individually based models so all the models of a unit fit onto one base. Do you think they would make as many sales if they devoted half of their sprue space to a base for their style of basing? I bet that most people would not want to buy Mantic minis because they're getting the minis for the minis, not for the bases. Not only are you wasting sprue space on something that can be sourced elsewhere but you're also devoting it to one style of basing that's not to everyones cup of team. I bet most of your potential customers don't actually want round bases, they want E:A style bases.

By all means have a separate base sprue as one of the first stretch goals (a very logical first stretch goal) but please devote as much of the initial sprue space to minis and vehicles as possible.

Also note that Renedra do round plastic bases that would be suitable (albeit without dimples) and are often used by other manufacturers for basing (almost all plastic historical boxes use Renedra bases): http://www.renedra.co.uk/webstore.html I'm sure they would be happy to allow you to have add-ons for their bases.


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 Post subject: Re: Plastic Infantry & transports sprue, crowdfunding.
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 2:19 pm 
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I've been thinking about the bases.

If we have separate bases as the first stretch goal, that means we can take the bases off the combined sprue entirely.

And that would mean everyone who pre-ordered the combined sprue would get more infantry, more vehicles, and two sprues of bases, for the same price as they paid in the first place... I will work up sprue concept art this evening.

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 Post subject: Re: Plastic Infantry & transports sprue, crowdfunding.
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 2:35 pm 
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Thank you


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 Post subject: Re: Plastic Infantry & transports sprue, crowdfunding.
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 2:44 pm 
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So will these machinations be part of the Troublemaker range ? :eh

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 Post subject: Re: Plastic Infantry & transports sprue, crowdfunding.
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 7:54 pm 
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Yup.

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 Post subject: Re: Plastic Infantry & transports sprue, crowdfunding.
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 8:06 pm 
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Right then - you spoke, we listened!

At Stretch Goal #1 - £3500, we'll be able to scrap the initial funding level sprue, and unlock two new sprues (see attached photos) instead.

The Defeat In Detail box that people have already pledged for will change its contents, instead of being 5x of the current sprue design, it'd be 3x of the new sprue design, and 2x bases sprues (so that's the same production cost for us, so we can keep the box price exactly the same).

So in the original Defeat In Detail box you'd get:
-70 Humans
-5 Human IFV's
-70 Aliens
-5 Alien Vehicles
-5 Alien Cannons
-30 Plastic Bases (but you only got enough figures for 28 bases)

But in the Stretch Goal #1 version of the box you'd get:
-84 Humans
-6 Human IFV's
-84 Aliens
-6 Alien Vehicles
-6 Alien Cannons (can be plugged on to tanks, or added to bases alongside infantry)
-32 plastic bases (and you get enough figures that you can snap four of each and have spares to replace them with, or use the spares for objective dioramas, or with pre-existing bases etc.)

So 28 extra figures, 2 extra tanks, 1 extra cannon, 4 extra bases.


Attachments:
File comment: Bases concept sprue.
bases concept tool.jpg
bases concept tool.jpg [ 313.34 KiB | Viewed 3563 times ]
File comment: Stretch Goal #1 sprue.
new sprue layout.jpg
new sprue layout.jpg [ 587.39 KiB | Viewed 3563 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Plastic Infantry & transports sprue, crowdfunding.
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 8:17 pm 
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Or to put it another way, we'll be able to add 20% more tanks, infantry & cannons, for the same sticker price.


£13 more until we are 40% funded on the basic sprue!

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 Post subject: Re: Plastic Infantry & transports sprue, crowdfunding.
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 8:38 pm 
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Much better thank you :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Plastic Infantry & transports sprue, crowdfunding.
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 8:58 pm 
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No problemo. :-)

Woop, we broke 40%!

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