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Chaos Starter List
DaCone2
 Post subject: Chaos Starter List
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:59 pm 
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I started a thread in the dry dock about the ships i am painting and was going to ask for advice about what ships to use but its more relevant here i think?  :)
First BFG ships

What sort of ships work well together?
I have been thinking of using 2 slaughters in a squadron together supported by a carnage and acheron in squadron. Maybe then use a devastation to provide fighter / bomber support? I am just starting though so i'm still learning the rules.
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blackhorizon
 Post subject: Chaos Starter List
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:19 pm 
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2 slaughters in pairs is always good.

Personally I like the Carnage very much. The Devastation is a great and amongst many favourite Chaos cruiser.

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Raysokuk
 Post subject: Chaos Starter List
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:13 am 
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I would suggest getting 2 slaughters in a squadron if you're gonna have slaughters, as they're gonna take alot of damage on their own, if the enemies firepower is split between 2 ships its not so bad!

The Devastation is the worst kept secret of Chaos victories! Seriously its great! It kicks ass! Keep it at longer range and use a-boats for their speed and escort killing capability!

Your 4th cruiser should be a Hades IMO (As you don't have a HC). After the Slaughters have pummeled the enemy with WB's the Hades can finish them off with locked on lances at range!

Cheers,

RayB

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DaCone2
 Post subject: Chaos Starter List
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:56 pm 
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Ok, next ship is carnage.  :D

Would the hades be better than the acheron as the hades has to close to use all its lances, whereas the achaeon can fire the same number of lances whilst abeam to its target ( at a slightly shorter range though ) I was thinking of pairing it with a carnage so that they can both be abeam and fire at the same target. FP 22 and 4 lances on one broadside?

But then saying that, the hades has nice weapon batteries.

Any ideas?
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Raysokuk
 Post subject: Chaos Starter List
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:24 pm 
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The major difference between the Hades and the Acheron is playing style.

At 60cm closing on your opponent isn't that bad (especially if there are better(easier) targets for your enemy to shoot at! Like Slaughters!).

It is also easier to lock-on and have a good choice of enemy targets when plodding straight towards them (at 12.5cm speed), as having such a long range gives you a massive area of the board to shoot at.

When within 15cm show your broadsides! It's only really worth doing it when you are that close IMO. Unless you have multiple 'good' targets to shoot at!

The Acheron on the other hand has poor range for a Chaos HC, 45cm to be effective (otherwise you may as well get a Dev to shoot with it's Lances at 60cm!).
The Acheron gets 4 lances and then 6 wb's at 45cm. Unless squadroned with a Carnage, the WB's are only token!

Also when circling your enemy its often hard to be locked on and find the target you want, unless you have 60cm range!

Again, only having 45cm range means that to fire, next turn your enemy are going to be pushing their broadsides in your aft or prow (Or just throwing torpedoes at your abeam hull).

Better to compare them in squadrons:

Hades and a Murder(variant!) (The only time Murders are worth taking, but if you can get another Hades!).
Acheron and Carnage.

They both cost the same, but the Hades and Murder should get a full extra turn of shooting while on lock-on, and then be locked on after that!

Cheers,

RayB

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DaCone2
 Post subject: Chaos Starter List
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:10 pm 
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Ah i see.
Hmmm. One of the reasons that i was interested in the acheron is that its a dedicated lance ship so for me as a new player its easier to work out how to use it. I think for now, i will add a Carnage, Acheron and Devastation to my Slaughter so i have a close in brawler, a medium range WB boat, a medium range lance boat and a carrier.

Given your advice my next two boxes of cruisers might be:

Slaughter ( to squadron with the first, cheers black horizon )
Murder
Hades ( to squadron with murder )
Styx ( to squadron with devastation )

This would give me:

6 Iconoclast

8 Idolators

Slaughter
Slaughter

Carnage
Acheron

Murder
Hades

Devastation
Styx


Is this well balanced?
Would it be better to have the iconoclasts in one big lump or mix them in with the idolators for ablative shields? ( or would that fall foul of the mixed armour rules? )
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Raysokuk
 Post subject: Chaos Starter List
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:33 pm 
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Styx Suck! They have too much of 'everything'. You can't Lock-on if you're reloading and visa versa. Best to stick with the cheaper and better (for points) Devastation! Get 2 Hades!

For a begginer I would say that the Hades is much easier to use than the Acheron!

Have Fun!

Cheers,

RayB

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DaCone2
 Post subject: Chaos Starter List
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:00 am 
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I see what you mean about the styx but its so pretty! :D

If I did take a styx, would I be shooting myself in the foot or is the devastation a bit too cheap?

Another question, can you fire ordinance in the same phase that you reloaded? So can you fire torpedoes, reload at start of your next turn, fire in ordinance phase etc . . . or do you have to wait a turn to fire once reloaded?

I played my imperial friend last night and managed to kill a Lunar with 7 hits remaining and full shields with a carnage and acheron at close range and locked on.
That was fun.  

My list was:
Chaos Lord, MoT
Slaughter
Carnage
Acheron
3 Idolators
3 Iconoclasts

Against:
Fleet admiral ( or whichever one has Ld8 )
Lunar
Gothic
Tyrant ( w range upgrade )
3 Swords
3 Firestorms

These are the ships that i had assembled otherwise i could have used a devastation instead.
In the end i had no escorts left, the slaughter was destroyed and the carnage was down to 7 hits.
I had killed Lunar and taken a Tyrant down to 1 hit, killed the firestorm squadron and reduced the no of swords to 1.
We weren't sure who won so we called it a draw.

After what you said, i am thinking of buying:
Cruiser box
Cruiser box
Repulsive Grand Cruiser
3 Infidel
3 Infidel
Fighters
Bombers

Maybe a Despoiler as well to replace the styx? What do you think?
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blackhorizon
 Post subject: Chaos Starter List
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:31 am 
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The Styx poor? Yeah, compared to the undercosted Devastation it surely is.

But does that hold me from fielding it? No.

I'm no fan of ordnance* so I tend to field a Styx so I have 6 launch bays, if I fielded 1 Devastation I would have 4.
Those 6 are enough to keep balance in the AC department against most fleets. The 4 would be to few.
A 2nd Devastation isn't an option.

* No fan of ordnance? Haha, I just completed a 2000 pts Tau CPF fleet; talk about ordnance!

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Raysokuk
 Post subject: Chaos Starter List
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:15 pm 
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DaCone2,

Yeah, you reload at the begining of the movement phase (before any ships are moved), so you take back any AC(Attack Craft) that you want at this time then launch what you want in the Ordy phase. Keep the AC limit in mind (better to 'waste' your AC in the enemies ordy phase then reload them, than just leave them there (unless you intend to Lock-on with your carrier!))

The fleets you've been using don't have any AC! So they look a little 'odd'. Better to have a Dev over a Styx for a beginer as the Dev is so easy to use (just stay abeam, reload launch and fire at whatever you want, it's good against everything!).

Why the Repulsive? It's a sexy model has alright firepower (the range and speed don't go together), it has Torps (That's not so great, a Salvo of 6 that won't be improved upon by being in a squadron is a waste of time!) If you're gonna get a Repulsive get 2.

The Despoiler is allright but it is expensive! You could get 2 Devs for the same points, having 1 more lance but 6 less WB's at long range abeam (roughly equal). Then 12 Wb's instead of 4 lances at short range, also roughly equal, but the Devs can fire their WB's to the port! 2 Cruisers in larger games (games that could involve a BB) will have roughly the same resilience as a BB if not more. The Cruisers will have better speed, better turning and better leadership (as they roll twice for leadership and pick the best)!

The Desolator is a 'cheap' fast battleship! I would suggest this as your big ship as you seem to be the in close sort. It's primary weapons are torps, but if you aim your ship right you could get 4 lances and 6 Wb's on lockon and 9 torps on the same target! And 4 lances at another target! Not bad for 300pts of battleship! It would be a good idea to have a squadron of infidels buzzing around (and behind) the BB, as you can use thier boarding torps to clear fighters. As it is affordable you could have a pair of these BB's in a game of 2000pts! 18 torps, with a parallel formation with 8 shields (or only 4 if firing the str 18 salvo!).

Cheers,

RayB

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Heavens To Betsy
 Post subject: Chaos Starter List
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:17 am 
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Originally posted by Raysokuk

As it is affordable you could have a pair of these BB's in a game of 2000pts! 18 torps, with a parallel formation with 8 shields (or only 4 if firing the str 18 salvo!).


Why would a squadron of two Desolators only have 4 shields if combining their torpedoes into a single Strength 18 salvo?

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DaCone2
 Post subject: Chaos Starter List
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:56 pm 
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Cheers for that mate!

So if you left some craft out there whilst you reloaded, when those craft are taken off, would you be able to launch a full wave or the full strength minus however many craft were outside when you reloaded?

As we are new to the game, we are trying to introduce new things one at a time. We've only just introduced torpedoes in the last two games  :D
Next will be attack craft, after that teleport attacks and boarding i guess.

Devastation it is then.
Next ships: Slaughter, Murder, Hades and one more, what else?

I'd like a force which looks cool and isn't too underpowered. I'm not really that interested in a killy army of doom. I want things I'd like to paint which is why i like the despoiler so much. Plus it will scare my friend cos its big.

To be honest i'd like one of all the battleships really, its just a matter of which ones are first.

I hadn't thought of squadroning capital ships. That would be evil . . .  :laugh:
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Xavi
 Post subject: Chaos Starter List
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:23 pm 
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To combine salvos, yo need to be in base to base contact.

When in base to base contact, you are affected by blast markers that get in contact with the other ship?'s base as if they were touching your own base. So, if one of the desolators is hit 3 times (for example, he will lose 3 shields and 3 BM will appear there, easch one of them negating a shield of the second desolator.

In practical terms, when you drop 4 shields total from the 2 desolators, they are both shieldless.

Clear as mud? :)

Xavi

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