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Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis

 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:47 am 
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I am working on the batteries and weapons to make it appear less fiddly as in the smotherman formula.

Goodies & Xenos stuff I haven't covered yet, but it will come, I like your basic ideas.

After we nailed cruisers we should turn our attention to escorts.

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 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:44 am 
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ah, great. Well I did some calculations myself based on smotherman and I came up with the following figures:

Basic Weapons Battery ( 1 hardpoint)

fp 6 / 30 cm - 10 points
fp 6/  45 cm - 20 points

Basic Lance Battery ( 1 hardpoint)

str 2 / 30 cm - 20 points
str 2 / 45 cm - 25 points

Basic Launchbay ( 1 hardpoint)

str 2 Fighters/Aboats 15 points


I don't think RT cruisers should have battleship-grade weaponry ( i.e. weapons that can fire to 60 cm) perhaps only on the dorsal slot or the prow slot.

We should also consider how we're going to balance everything, because if we allow for extended custom options, be possibility for an "ubership" becomes greater. For example,are we going to allow a grand cruiser class RT cruiser to travel at 30 cm and being able to fire a respectable broadside? A 10 hit speed 30  fp 12/45 3 shields 3 turrets vessel comes at 235 points and has 2 forward firing lances at 45 cm to boot, while a fully upgraded repulsive comes at 240 ( or was it 245, I can seem to remeber to cost for the additional shield on the repulsive).

Also I think that a 10-hit RT-cruiser should have a large base, just to be consistent with other 10 hit ships.

For the escorts, I have several ideas. But they can wait, first we have to nail te cruisers.

Well, thats all for now, I?m off to catch the train. See you guys on monday!






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 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:28 pm 
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ah, great. Well I did some calculations myself based on smotherman and I can up with the following figures:

Basic Weapons Battery ( 1 hardpoint)

fp 6 / 30 cm - 10 points
fp 6/  45 cm - 20 points

Basic Lance Battery ( 1 hardpoint)

str 2 / 30 cm - 20 points
str 2 / 45 cm - 25 points

Basic Launchbay ( 1 hardpoint)

str 2 Fighters/Aboats 15 points

You calculations are correct and rounded up, nice.

I was more thinking of buying 2 batteries at a time up to the available number of hardpoints Sidenote, The 1,5 point I mention on the medium hull should be rewritten in a final document, it sounds a bit odd.

3 batteries or 1 lance are 0.5 hardpoints.

3 batteries @ 30cm cost 5 points
3 batteries @ 45cm cost 10 points
1 lance @ 30cm cost 10 points
1 lance @ 45cm cost 20 points

Only launch bays need a good thinking as I would like a more varied kit:
Fighters @ 5 points
A-boats @ 8 points
Fighter-Bombers @ 8 points
Bombers @ 10 points

I don't think RT cruisers should have battleship-grade weaponry ( i.e. weapons that can fire to 60 cm) perhaps only on the dorsal slot or the prow slot.
Agreed.

We should also consider how we're going to balance everything, because if we allow for extended custom options, be possibility for an "ubership" becomes greater. For example,are we going to allow a grand cruiser class RT cruiser to travel at 30 cm and being able to fire a respectable broadside? A 10 hit speed 30  fp 12/45 3 shields 3 turrets vessel comes at 235 points and has 2 forward firing lances at 45 cm to boot, while a fully upgraded repulsive comes at 240 ( or was it 245, I can seem to remeber to cost for the additional shield on the repulsive).
I completely agree, that?s why I already placed a cap on number of shields etc. Maybe introduce a maximal points of upgrade possible (175 pts on standard hull/150 pts on medium hull/125 pts on small hull)????

Also I think that a 10-hit RT-cruiser should have a large base, just to be consistent with other 10 hit ships.
Yeah.

For the escorts, I have several ideas. But they can wait, first we have to nail te cruisers.
Good. You should also check in the subforum fleet development all the nice little alien designs we came up with last year. Scratchbuilders paradise.

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 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:00 am 
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Ah, scrap my fiddly upgrades. Not funny to do. In a campaign yes, for a one-of game: No.

I still support the 3 hull types, but with set weaponry. Some things may be upgrades and xenos systems. Taken into account lances are difficult weapons to maintain.
Torpedoes should be expensive and not mandatory.

So my idea on basic ships, not hulls (long):

Basic Trader Cruiser:
Hitpoints 8
Armour 5+
Shields 2
Turrets 2
Speeds 20cm
Turns 45*

Weapon type 1:
Port battery 10 @ 30cm
Starboard battery 10 @ 30cm
Prow battery 4 @ 30cm (LFR)

Weapon type 2:
Port battery 4 @ 30cm
Starboard battery 4 @ 30cm
Port lance 2 @ 30cm
Starboard lance 2 @ 30cm
Prow battery 4 @ 30cm (LFR)

Weapon type 3:
Port battery 6 @ 30cm
Starboard battery 6 @ 30cm
Port launch bay 2 ? fighters/a-boats
Starboard launch bay 2 - fighers/a-boats
Prow battery 4 @ 30cm (LFR)

Hull upgrade basic cruisers:
? Extra Thrusters: +5cm speed @ 15 points
? Shields: +1 shield @ 15 points
? Turrets: +1 turret @ 10 points

Weapon upgrade basic cruisers:
? Extend strength 4 batteries up to 45cm @ 20 points (port/starboard)
? Extend strength 6 batteries up to 45cm @ 30 points (port/starboard)
? Upgrade launch bays with bombers @ 25 points (port/starboard)
? Replace prow batteries with strength 6 torpedoes @ 25 points

Medium Merchantmen:
Hitpoints 6
Armour 5+
Shields 1
Turrets 2
Speeds 20cm
Turns 45*

Weapon type 1:
Port battery 6 @ 30cm
Starboard battery 6 @ 30cm
Prow battery 4 @ 30cm (LFR)

Weapon type 2:
Port battery 4 @ 30cm
Starboard battery 4 @ 30cm
Port launch bay 1 ? fighters/a-boats
Starboard launch bay 1 - fighers/a-boats
Prow battery 4 @ 30cm (LFR)

Hull upgrade merchantmen:
? Extra Thrusters: +5cm speed @ 15 points
? Extra manoeuvring thrusters, increase turn rate up to 90* at 15 points
? Shields: +1 shield @ 15 points
? Turrets: +1 turret @ 10 points

Weapon upgrade merchantmen:
? Extend strength 4 batteries up to 45cm @ 20 points (port/starboard)
? Replace launch bays with strength 1 lances/30cm, no cost (port/starboard)
? Replace prow batteries with strength 6 torpedoes @ 25 points

Small Trader:
Hitpoints 4
Armour 5+
Shields 1
Turrets 1
Speeds 25cm
Turns 90*

Weapon type 1:
Port battery 4 @ 30cm
Starboard battery 4 @ 30cm
Prow battery 2 @ 30cm (LFR)

Hull upgrade trader:
? Extra Thrusters: +5cm speed @ 15 points
? Extra Thrusters (2): +1 D6 on AAF  @ 10 points
? Shields: +1 shield @ 15 points
? Turrets: +1 turret @ 10 points

Weapon upgrade small trader:
? Extend strength 4 batteries up to 45cm @ 20 points (port/starboard)
? Replace prow batteries with strength 4 torpedoes @ 15 points

General ?Imperial? technology upgrades, useable on every hull type:
? Improved sensors (as in BBB, +1 LD) @ 15 points
? Targeting Matrix (ignore shifts above 45cm) @ 25 points
? Extra Thrusters (2): +1 D6 on AAF  @ 10 points
? Manoeuvring protocols (+1 LD on CTNH, BR & AAF) @ 10 points
? ..
? ..
?

General ?Exotic? technology upgrades, useable on every hull type:
? Replace strength 4 prow batteries with Tau Gravitic Missile Launcher strength 5 @ 25 points
? Replace strength 2 prow batteries with Tau Gravitic Missile Launcher strength 3 @ 15 points
? Cruiser only: Reduce port/starboard batteries to strength 6 and replace remaining batteries with Tau Gravitic Hooks. This allows for inclusion of 2 free Tau Orca class escorts. Costs of replacement: +60 points.
? Cruiser/Merchantmen only: Add dorsal Demiurg/Tau Ion Cannon, strength 2 @ 30cm at cost of 20 points.
? Integration of Tau Messenger style Tracking System (no range!) @ 15 points
? Alien Hull: in the endphase roll a D6, on a 5+ 1 lost hitpoint is restored. Cost: 35 points
? Eldar holofield technology: force right shift against batteries, 6+ save against lances. Cost 25 points
? Alien weaponry: In shooting phase the weapon may fire D6 blastmarkers up to 30cm in a random direction (scatter dice). Cost 20 points.
? ..
? ?
?


I think it is a good idea to limit the numbers of upgrades. Each ship may choose 2 ?Imperial Style? upgrades plus 3 ?Exotic Style upgrades.

Waddaya think on this approach?

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 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:09 pm 
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I really like the idea of the upgrades and think that perhaps certain upgrades should be limited to certain RT hulls.  Like have the option to have a lightly armed but fast and hard to kill light cruiser equivelant.  Conversely a heavier hull would allow the RT to add more weapon oriented and less speed/manuverability upgrades on.  

Also I really like the idea of having a certain number of Imperial upgrades and then a certain number of Xeno upgrades.  Perhaps we should look into designing unique xeno systems from races that are not as well known- I really like the idea of the "Alien Weapon"

Alien weaponry: In shooting phase the weapon may fire D6 blastmarkers up to 30cm in a random direction (scatter dice). Cost 20 points.


It's unique, has plenty of tactical application but is not overpowered.  It only damages a target on a roll of 6 or more but is a good shield killer and can be used as a smoke screen against a battery heavy opponent.  I think we should have more things like this.  Perhaps take away the random direction feature and limit how many can touch an enemy ship if any at all.  It could be representative of a massive cloud of dangerous energy/matter-   like a weapon that creates a plasma storm.  It could be placed in a foe's path and force them to turn.  

Honestly I've been tossing around ideas of weaponry like this for the purposes of a Kareshi Expanse Xeno group.  I always thought they should be a bit undergunned by conventional fleet standards but possess their plasma storm weapons which have the same effect as a cloud of blastmarkers.  Or it could simply work like weapon batteries against the ships armor- that is the blast marker contact rolls must equal or beat the ship's armor to cause damage.  I know I'm getting off topic here and I apologize, but I just wanted to illustrate how much I like this idea.

The idea of wielding equipment like Tau technology sounds like a good one to me- same goes for limited Eldar tech and so forth.

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 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:03 pm 
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I like the way you are making those stats. I have some ideas about the trading thing, but as we are to first concentrate on ships, i will post them later.

Just one more add for the RT cruiser hull: give it the option of haveing "reinforced prow" (i.e., 6+ armour on prow). Haven?t you always thought such a thing when you see the RT cruiser miniature?

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 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:05 pm 
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In my opinion the exotic list may be very long! Lot of good options will create a multitude of vessels.
The prow is of course a good option to include. Just post upgrades as they pop in your mind. We can always cut down if it is too odd.

So you both like the main hull variants? If so I'll hit them into a word document from which we can expand.

With the basic cruiser stats (hull + basic weaponry) nailed for 90% we can do some escort cleansing.

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 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:15 pm 
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Would you like me to post that jokaero starship stats here? (they are from a very very old thread)

(and yes, i like your basic hull & weaponry ideas)





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 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:52 am 
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Definitely like both the hull variants- This is looking really cool hehe.

Heres some idea for exotic upgrades:

Displacement drive- (limits how many weapons may be fielded)  On CTNH special orders the ship may move the first 15cm of it's movement in any direction except the rear arc before turning.

Kel-dach Torpdeos:  The RT cruiser replaces it's normal torpedo armament with torpedos acqiured from a local xeno race- the RT cruiser counts as having Melta Torpedos.

Penance Shields and Wards:  The RT is known in certain circles among the Inquisition and with him acting as their distant eyes and ears, they have gifted him with a means to protect himself from the Daemonic.  The RT ship is immune to the detrimental effects of Marks of Slaanesh, presence of Spectral Daemon ships, and any other psychic attacks such as Necron Seplechures and Tyranid ships with the Psychic Scream evolution.

Demiurg Maitenance bots:  The RT has acquired Demiurg Maitenance Automations which allow him to roll 2 additional dice for damage control in the end phase.

A strange passenger:  A rogue Eldar Seer and his warrior guard have taken an interest in the RT's wellbeing, seeing a future where he may aid the Eldar cause.  The RT gains a reroll

I am a leaf upon the wind...:  Your RT has hired an eccentric but brilliant pilot/helmsman.  His immense skill is more than enough compensation for all of the dinosaur toys he has scattered about his station.  You may always attempt to go onto CTNH, BR, AAF special orders even if other ships have failed their command checks already.  The RT ship may make this attempt even if it has already failed a Lockon or Reload Ordnance check.

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 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:47 pm 
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Hey folks, everything is looking/sounding really interesting here. I'm just annoyed I can barely afford (academically) to keep my hands in the pots they're already in!

Anyhow, just a quick mention to consider (and really deeply consider):

- Demiurg vessels, at anyrate, do not ever attack other Demiurg vessels. This may not be the case for Demiurg equipment, but it is something to consider (ie noting that Demiurg-sourced equipment cannot be used to target Demiurg vessels)
- Tau sold and constructed equipment, as noted in the fiction, has a good deal of failsafes in place to prevent the equipment being turned against the Tau Empire. Notably in Rogue Star (A rather good novel, though the space combat could have done with a better 'feel' of BFG in my opinion) Tau-sold equipment simply doesn't work (or indeed: explodes) when targetted against Tau!

A leaf on the wind? He won't have a very long life expectancy then... One game only?  :;):

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 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:50 am 
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Hi guys,

well, I see a lot of good suggestions here on the boards. i really like the weapon sets vfor the hulltypes created bij Blackhorzion. Make for much easier balancing to I think. Can we come to a decission about the exact points and maximum number of upgrades per hulltype?


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 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:00 am 
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Ok. But i think we should not lmit the standard upgrades (so far they tend to be few and not too much overpowering), but the limit of three exotic upgrades seems good for me (should we open a poll?)

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 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:06 am 
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Urr...Poll? On what? Number of upgrades?

Today I'll upload a word file with basic hull types and weapon upgrades.

Do note that the batteries in type 2 & 3 for the cruiser should be 4 and not 6 like I posted earlier.

I am not sure on assault boats as mandatory. Should it be a cruiser only upgrade?

I like those ideas Zhai & Xisor.

The main thing is: lot and lot of ideas. For a campaign (start as small trader and work your way up) I think we can create something very cool.

But to implement it into regular BFG it will be harder. Namely it should be recognisable but not fiddly and work intensive to create a nice fleet.

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 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:54 am 
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The word doc.

Questions:
What's a cool name to distinguish the cruiser hull? and Small Trader?

I like merchantmen for the middle version.

Upgrades, keep 'em coming.

Lay-out will get better (stat sheets and such). Feel free to use this word document for adds.

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 Post subject: Rogue Trader Fleet Guide & Analysis
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:25 am 
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why not use some of de older age-of sail names for the smaller vessels? I like the name merchantman, but perhaps use that name for the smaller vessel and use galleon for the medium merchantman? Or perhaps name the small trader a Fluyt?
I'll habe a look at your list during my lunch break, at the moment I've got to study really hard ( I have an pretty though exam next week :S )


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