On Conflicted (weapon layoyut) designs:
In my opinion overrated problem.
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| 'New' resin Tau rules are up on the SG site... http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=7231 |
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| Author: | Nerroth [ Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 'New' resin Tau rules are up on the SG site... |
Hi. The first deaft of the new official rules for the resin Tau ships for BFG is now available. You can probably tell by this thread's title that I'm less than impressed. Gary |
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| Author: | vanvlak [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | 'New' resin Tau rules are up on the SG site... |
Thanks for the link - not being a BFG expert (and not having read them yet) - what's bad about them? |
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| Author: | blackhorizon [ Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | 'New' resin Tau rules are up on the SG site... |
Okay, The Forgeworld list: Warden: fine, weapon layout is good, speed should be upped 5cm Castellan: weapon layout same as the Defender (Armada Tau, old style), 5cm faster tough but also 5 points higher costed. Emissary: prow railgun batteries to strong, high costed, no grav hook option. Protector: weak weapon layout. 45cm Ion Cannons break ?ground rule? by BFG rules committee. Custodian: Lots of launch bays, really strong weapon layout. No vessel has ITS. Personally I like the list Specialist Games did themselves most, only minor things needed. |
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| Author: | Honda [ Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 'New' resin Tau rules are up on the SG site... |
Part I Ok, so I downloaded the new pdf for the resin ships and I'm wondering, which list is better, the Armada one or the resin one? If anyone would care, I'd like to hear comparisons on a ship class level, which list is strong in what areas. My initial impression is that the "resin" list appears to be modeled somewhat around a modern American naval task force, 1-2 big carriers, 1-2 cruisers, lots of escorts. The "Armada" fleet list would appear to be more of a heavy cruiser/escort fleet with missiles. So anyone up for a little summarization? Thanx in advance! |
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| Author: | Xisor [ Sun Aug 27, 2006 5:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 'New' resin Tau rules are up on the SG site... |
Comparisons: Fleet in General: Armada: An actually well rounded and varied fleet Forgeworld: A pretty sucky fleet where each ship is merely a bigger version of another. Battleships: Explorer: Heavy Carrier. Huge ordnance capacity, very much a nice 'carrier warfare' option. Buckets of ordnance, very cheap. Custodian: Also buckets of ordnance. Not very innovative though since the Protector has ordnance too. Big Cruisers: Protector: Okay-ish weapons load, nothing too terrific though. Lighter than the Hero. The ordnance on it is way too much for what the ship looks like it has. Poor in general and overcosted. An unrestricted ship though. Hero: A terrific ship, but it has a conflicted weapons loadout(having decent Ordnance and Decent weapons means you have to choose quite often between Locking on and Reloading, which is a pain). An exceptionally decent ship. It's also about 10pts cheaper than it should be, *but* it's restricted by the number of Merchants and Explorers you have. Little Cruisers: Merchant: A waste of space ship. Useful for getting Heroes cheaply, but overcosted (by 10-15pts) and weak. Generally a liability if you try and use it as anything other than a supporting fireship. Slow, very slow. Emissary: A good bit faster, and more manouverable, has a hefty weapons load, but is almost unusably weak. It really needs a second shield(as there's noway to upgrade it's hit points, unlike the Merchant). Far to well armed for what the ship looks like, but there you go. Overcosted and overgunned for such a weak ship. Escorts: Orca:Exceptionally decent. Cheap, but restricted through Grav hooks.No complaints from me. Warden: Faster than the Orca, and only available at a 3:1 ratio with Custodians. It's weapons loadout is roughly identical(fire arcs swapped) to the Orca, but totally daft: Can you see any way of making the Orca fire anything powerful to the side of it? 5pts more costly than the Orca. A bit rubbish really given that it doesn't really seem very different from the Orca. Defender: A conflicted ship as it has hefty weapons and misssiles, but is unlikely to use both of them to full effect. Overcosted by 5pts, but still very useable as a ship. Excellent missileboat, but it's poor manouverability means it's not the best of escorts. Lovely model though... Castellan: Identical again to the Defender, but faster and more manouverable. Pointless(fluffwise) when you already have the Defender as it'd make the Defender obsolete! Things in common: Niccassar Dhows(restricted rather sillilly in the resin list), Demiurg(fantastic) and Kroot Poop-ship(useless in every situation). The Armada list is, in general, alot more suited to being a Carrier Force, given that you can make a good fleet of mainly Orcas, Explorers and Defenders, thus having buckets of Attack Craft, a ton of missiles, and plenty of escorts to fight with! If you want my frank summation of the FW list, here it is: A great big steaming pile of feaces. It's more than a bit rubbish. It doesn't make sense from any point of view. Check out our fanmade CPF list, it's better by leaps and bounds. It also expands the original Armada list *and* does a decent CPF list, so you've got great access to everything you like(not in list terms!)! |
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| Author: | blackhorizon [ Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 'New' resin Tau rules are up on the SG site... |
On Conflicted (weapon layoyut) designs: In my opinion overrated problem.
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 'New' resin Tau rules are up on the SG site... |
Aesthetically the FW miniatures fit much more closely with the rest of the Tau ranges, but as for their rules I've no idea... BFG is the only 40k-universe game I've not played. |
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| Author: | Xisor [ Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 'New' resin Tau rules are up on the SG site... |
I agree, BH, conflicted design *isn't* a terrible problem from a game perspective. I play with the Hero and Defender regularly despite this, but I see no reason to permit it *just because*. It's counter intuitive that the Tau would deliberately add to the problem. In terms of advancing and building better ships, having a dedicated carrier/command ship(Custodian) and a dedicated gunship, each with sufficient auxilliary systems so as to not be completely scuppered in the other department, is a far more logical and well reasoned path(IMO) than simply going hell for leather and building ships of roughly similar nature, one bigger(or smaller) than the other. The fleet(as a background entity) should be varied and capable in all aspects, whilst the individual ships should be capable in most aspects, but generally specialised towards one function. In games terms this is not *as* relevant, but it does add room for unique strengths and weaknesses. Xisor |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 'New' resin Tau rules are up on the SG site... |
By the way, if the list is particularly disapointing to you, try sending some feedback to: imperialarmour@games-workshop.co.uk |
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| Author: | blackhorizon [ Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | 'New' resin Tau rules are up on the SG site... |
When feedback is sent, what would FW do? They can change the list easy but not the book (Taros Campaign). Yes, Xisor, you are talking about specialised ship, versatile fleet. But, somehow, I can see some designs to be versatile seen the role they have in a fleet (raiding, deep space patrol or warship for big fleet actions). |
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| Author: | Honda [ Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 'New' resin Tau rules are up on the SG site... |
@Xisor Thank you for the summary. It sounds like from how I like to play (navally speaking) that I ought to go with the Armada list and just use FW miniatures. Since the Hero/Explorers as the "big" ship in the Armada list would equate to the Custodian, any other similar match ups? Wardens as Orcas? Maybe even use the regular Orca model for variety. Has anyone else done this kind of thing and what did you use? Thanx for the help so far. |
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| Author: | blackhorizon [ Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 'New' resin Tau rules are up on the SG site... |
Standard: Explorer = Custodian Hero = Protector Merchant = Emissary Defender = Castellan Orca = Warden Pretty much accepted. |
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| Author: | Honda [ Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 'New' resin Tau rules are up on the SG site... |
Standard: Explorer = Custodian Hero = Protector Merchant = Emissary Defender = Castellan Orca = Warden Pretty much accepted. Very good. Thank you. One last request. Could someone provide a couple of lists that they use so that I can get a feel for what a 750 and 1500 pt fleet looks like? I know, you're doing all the work...think of it as getting a new player. 
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| Author: | Honda [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 'New' resin Tau rules are up on the SG site... |
Okay, would someone "please" provide a sample 750 and 1000 point list to someone who has no clue and needs a guide? Thanx in advance! |
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| Author: | Xisor [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 'New' resin Tau rules are up on the SG site... |
I think you're best looking at: 2 Heroes 360pts Kor'El 50pts 2 Merchants(4HP) 210pts 4 Orcas 100pts To bump that to 1000, add an Explorer and juggle the Orcas/Defenders to get as close to 1000 or a fleet you feel fine with. Using the count as set (which is okay, really, but leaves you feeling empty IMO) you have 2 Protectors, 2 Emissaries and 4 Wardens. Works nicely! |
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