Since, strike cruisers are cheaper in a normal SM list and not all people like Black Templars..
Have to go to work now, I'll give more constructive feedback when I get there..?
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| Black Templars http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=6596 |
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| Author: | Raysokuk [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Black Templars |
This is a polished version of the rough and ready version 1 of the Black Templar Fleet lists. Please offer suggestions and ideas! Black Templars Special Rules All normal rules for Space Marines apply (from Armada). Additional rules will follow where appropriate. Attendant vessels A single Strike Cruiser (including variants) may be attached to an attendant vessel (Training vessel) or an attendant squadron of escorts (any escorts available in the fleet list). Attendant vessels are squadroned with the Strike Cruiser, and therefore gain benefits from the Strike Cruiser?s leadership and boarding (in a multiple boarding action you would get +2 for being Space Marine). Attendant Escorts may use the Strike Cruisers unmodified leadership if within 10cm. Less Than Equal Some ships in the fleet are noted as being ?less than equal?, this means they have normal leadership, so 6-9 Leadership instead of 8-10, a +1 Boarding modifier instead of +2, and boarding torpedoes, but no Space Marine benefit against or for Hit and Run attacks. Righteous Zeal The fleet uses an additional Subplot (Blood Bond) to the one(s) it is already using, but without an affect on renown (Legacies of War/Blood Bond: If a 'friendly' capital ship is crippled or destroyed all the other 'capital ships' (excluding Forgeships) in the fleet gain +1 Ld in the next turn! (If this is the subplot rolled for randomly, treat the random result as Legacies of War/No Quarter!: Cripple/destroy at least half the points value of the enemy fleet. (+1/-1) In addition to the subplot: Black Templar capital ships (excluding Forgeships), only give the enemy +1 Boarding mod when crippled instead of +2. Venerable Battle Barges In addition or instead of a normal Battle Barge Black Templars may use one Venerable Battle Barge. Venerable Battle Barges halve their launch bays rounding up and may only launch Thunderhawks, Prow Weapons are replaced with class specific strength Torpedoes Front, and each vessel has had its points value altered for this list (the Torpedo strength and obviously the point values are noted in the Fleet List). Venerable Battle Barges originate from both the Imperial and Chaos Fleet lists. (Note: although technically a Venerable Battle Barge the Eternal Crusader has its own fleet requirements in its rules, and is not contained within the fleet list). ? Ships of the Black Templars Battle Barge Variants (Famous Names: Sigismund's Light, *Eternal Crusader*) Eternal Crusader???.600pts? Character Ship (You need your opponent?s permission to use this ship.) Battleship/14, 20cm speed, 45*Turns, 4 Shields, 6+ Armour, 4 turrets Prow Launch bay, 20cm(TH), 4, N/A Prow Torpedoes, 30cm(Normal, Boarding), 6, Front Dorsal Bombardment Cannons, 30cm, 8, L/F/R Port Weapons Battery, 45cm, 12, Left Starboard Weapons Battery, 45cm, 12, Right Port Launch bay, 20cm(TH), 1, N/A Starboard Launch bay, 20cm(TH), 1, N/A Notes: Can't Come To New Heading, Double Boarding Value, Captained by the 'High Marshal': Ld10, 1 fleet re-roll per turn, Sword Brethren, Terminator Teleport Assault (This is the Marshal of the fleet, you can't have 2!). Fleet requirement: Maybe included in fleets of 2000pts or more. Has an 'attendant' escort squadron of 3-6 escort ships that may use the Battle Barge unmodified leadership if within 15cm. Requires 2 Strike Cruisers to be fielded. You may have another BB in a fleet with the Eternal Crusader (You may use one of the Strike Cruisers allowing the presence of the Eternal Crusader to field this second battle barge). Forgeship Forgeship (vengeance model) GC/10, 20cm speed, 45*Turns, 3 Shields, 5+ Armour, 3 turrets Port WB, 60cm, 10, Left Starboard WB, 60cm, 10, Left Port Lb's, *2, N/A (see notes) Starboard Lb's, *2, N/A (see notes) Notes: Can't CTNH, Allows 4 more TH's to be launched by the fleet than normal (2 if crippled, none if destroyed), offers +1 Repair points in a campaign, Gives all ships in the fleet a +1 leadeship bonus to reload, may use it's repair dice in the End Phase on friendly ships within 10cm (if there is a BM's in contact with either ship the repair dice are halved as normal). Famous Names: Heracles Strike Cruiser Variants Assault Variant??165pts (Suitable for the 8th company of a normal SM chapter) Cruiser/6, 25cm speed, 90*Turns, 1 Shields, 6+ Armour, 2 turrets Prow Launch bay, 20cm(TH), 3, N/A Prow Bombardment Cannon, 30cm, 2, L/F/R Port Weapons Battery, 30cm, 3, Left Starboard Weapons Battery, 30cm, 3, Right Famous Names: Dorn's Sword, Ophidium Gulf Devastator Variant....160pts (suitable for the 9th company of a normal SM chapter) Cruiser/6, 25cm speed, 90*Turns, 1 Shields, 6+ Armour, 1 turret Prow Torpedoes, 30cm(Normal, Boarding), 6, Front Prow Bombardment Cannon, 30cm, 3, L/F/R Port Weapons Battery, 30cm, 4, Left Starboard Weapons Battery, 30cm, 4, Right (May replace the Weapons Battery broadsides with Str1 lance each side). Famous Names: Holy Hand of Antioch(invented name) Black Templars Fleet list 0-1 Marshal (Master of the Fleet)...50pts You may purchase the following for your Marshal: 1-3 re-rolls......25pts each Terminator boarding party (Sword Brethren/Honour Guard): Normal SM Terminator boarding party AND +1 Boarding Modifier)...50pts. Terminator Teleport Assault: roll 2D6 when conducting H&R teleport attacks and select which one you wish to count...10pts Battle Barges (1 per SC): 0-1 Battle Barge...435pts (+1 Shield for +15pts and +1 turret for +10pts) 0-1 Venerable Battle Barge Despoiler Battleship?.410pts (Strength 8 Torpedoes. *representing another class) Emperor Battleship?350pts (Strength 6 Torpedoes) Styx Heavy Cruiser?.310pts (Strength 4 Torpedoes) Mars battle Cruiser?.265pts (Strength 6 Torpedoes) *Oberon Battleship?350pts (Strength 6 Torpedoes) *Apocalypse Battleship?375pts (Strength 10 Torpedoes) *Retribution Battleship?390pts (Strength 10 Torpedoes) *Repulsive?250pts (Strength 6 Torpedoes, +1 Shield and Large Base) (You may purchase the Terminator Teleport Assault for each Battle Barge at a cost of 10pts per ship (no ship can have this upgrade twice). (Ships marked with an '*' may be omitted in a future version) Forgeships (0-1 in a game over 750pts) 0-1 Forgeship...300pts? *(Less Than Equal) 0-12 Cruisers (1 per 3 Space Marine Escorts) Strike Cruiser....155pts Strike Cruiser Assault variant....165pts Training Vessel (Strike Cruiser)....120pts *(Less Than Equal) (may not have more training ships than the total number of Strike Cruisers and Strike Cruiser variants) Strike Cruiser Devastator variant....155pts (Reserve ship, *may only have one per 3 other cruisers, not including attendants). 0+ Space Marine Escorts Nova...50pts Gladius...45pts Hunter...40pts Firestorm (Rapid Strike Vessel)?45pts Sword (Rapid Strike Vessel)?.40pts Cobra (Rapid Strike Vessel)?35pts Reserve Escorts *(Less Than Equal) (may not have more Reserve Escorts than SM escorts). Firestorm?.40pts Sword?.35pts Falchion?.35pts Cobra?.30pts Iconoclast?30pts Ordnance Thunderhawks All Space Marine capital ships with launch bays have Thunderhawks. Training vessels still have Thunderhawks but as stated before don?t gain +1 for Hit and Run attacks. Thunderhawk Annihilators Annihilators act as bombers and fighters with a 4+ save vs. ordnance (the same as normal Thunderhawks). Annihilators cost +5pts per bay and may be bought for any Space Marine capital ship with launch bays (excluding Attendant vessels). Torpedoes All ships have normal and boarding torpedoes. Barrage Torpedoes Battle Barges, Venerable Battle Barges and Devastator Strike Cruisers may have Barrage special torpedoes as well as these options for +5pts per strength 2 torpedoes. ? Hope that's useable for playtesting! If you would like to present fleets made from the above fleet list please do so! Cheers, RayB Edited: Removed Devastator SC's (Strike Cruiser Devastator *variant....160pts (suitable for the 9th company of a normal SM chapter) Str 6 Barrage Torps in the prow instead of the launch bays (may replace the WB broadsides with Str1 lance each side). Removed limitation of Assualt variant SC (used to only be able to have as many Assualt varaints as normal SC's). Added a seperate limitation for the Forgeship from the BB's (it's not a BB afterall!). Gave the Repulsive +1 shield and large base (I merely forgot in the original post!) Restore Devastators SC's as a Reserve choice (one per 3 other cruisers, not including attendants), also added the option for normal and boarding torps (it should have been in there from the start!) Added an '*' statement after VBB's about which VB's might be deleted. Added the Terminator Teleport Assault upgrade as an option for all BB's. Added the Righteous Zeal special rules. Polsihed the fleet list. Cleared up rules and loop holes (eg. 'Less than Equal'). Made Barrage Torps an optional upgrade for certain ships! Edited 'Less than Equal' phrasing, deleted acts like chaos. Changed points for Despolier(420-410), Styx(310-280), Mars(255-265). Added rules for Forgeships: +1 Ld to reload for the fleet, sharing repair dice special rule. |
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| Author: | Xisor [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Black Templars |
Initial reaction to this: Why would anyone play the normal marine fleet? As I say, initial, but I'll see what I can do to formulate a better(more useful) opinion. Xisor |
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| Author: | blackhorizon [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Black Templars |
Since, strike cruisers are cheaper in a normal SM list and not all people like Black Templars.. Have to go to work now, I'll give more constructive feedback when I get there..?
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| Author: | blackhorizon [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Black Templars |
Ray, why didn't you post this in the Space Marine department? Afraid because I'm the Mod there? Bwahaaahaa! |
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| Author: | blackhorizon [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Black Templars |
First, from GW homepage: COMBAT DOCTRINE The Black Templars have continued in the style of their founder, Sigismund, in that they prefer close combat to ranged warfare. Face-to-face with his enemy, a Space Marine can earn honour and respect and be sure that his foe is truly vanquished. This inclination for close combat is further emphasized by the fanaticism of Black Templars battle brothers, whose righteous anger makes them impatient and headstrong. Black Templars will drive towards the foe relentlessly, their own casualties only serving to spur them on faster, hungry for vengeance against the slayers of their brethren. As part of their dedication to the Emperor, the Black Templars swear fell oaths of faith and protection. Before a battle, it is customary to renew one of these vows to the Emperor ? the type of vow made focuses the thoughts of the Initiates on a particular aspect of their duties and encourages them to extreme bravery, ruthlessness, or sacred revulsion against the foe. | |
| Author: | Raysokuk [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Black Templars |
Xisor, In the future (over the horizon!) the SM list will be expanded upon with SC variants and BB variants. The BB variants aren't in this list as I want to encourage people to take venerable BB's (which is also why the normal BB is 0-1). So the normal SM list will be better aswell (with more choices)! BH (can I call you BH?), SC's cost more as some of the Training vessels points are in the SC's cost (at least that's the idea!). I put this list here because I'm a Mod on this forum (and it's not a convential SM list!) So I'm not fearfull of your limited power of God! )Which Venerable BB's do you think would suck? Yes I will delete the Devastator variant! Also release the restriction on the Assault variant (Good catch!). Cheers, RayB |
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| Author: | Raysokuk [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Black Templars |
BH, (On the Forgeship) why should I drop the TH limit (it's to represent the availablity of TH's in the fleet due to the 'factory' ship. I'll think of some way of expanding the resourse theme (but it shouldn't only be good in campaigns!). (On Vows) I couldn't see any viable way of representing a vow in BFG (you can't change the layout of your ship before each battle!). I'll give it some more thought though! Cheers, RayB |
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| Author: | blackhorizon [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:32 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Black Templars | ||
I prefer horizon for short, since in Dutch BH is some sort of women underwear (eg to keep their breasts in place  )The other forum are for fleet development, thus SM, thus Black Templar. But I understand, being your own Mod is fun... pin...pin...sticky..sticky... * Ok on points, I didn't have an issue with them * Wich VBB sucks? I'll get back to that. I forgot: the list & idea are good in intention, only some fleshing out needed I think. |
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| Author: | blackhorizon [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:36 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Black Templars | ||
Bookkeeping issue I guess? You 'break' a mechanic IMHO, altough an ER mechanic. Yeah, vows aren't that clear for BFG, but it would be nice if we could incorporate it into the list someway. I'll try and think along. |
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| Author: | Raysokuk [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Black Templars |
Horizon, (Forgeship) I'm not sure if book keeping is that bad (just add another 4 TH's to your limit). (Vows) I really can't see a way to include these in BFG other than mentioning that it is part of the reason why the Sword Bretheren give +1 Boarding Mod. Cheers, RayB |
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| Author: | Archer [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Black Templars |
Why does the Retribution cost +25pts for +1 torpedo and SM rules when the Emperor cost +5pts for S6 torpedoes and SM rules? Does the Emperor/Oberon keep the prow sensors? They aren't weapons so it isn't clear. Why does the Oberon cost +15pts for the same S6 torpedoes, SM rules, and possible loss of the prow sensors while the Emperor is only +5? Why is the Repulsive +20pts for SM rules and nothing else? |
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| Author: | blackhorizon [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Black Templars |
makes them impatient and headstrong. Black Templars will drive towards the foe relentlessly, their own casualties only serving to spur them on faster, hungry for vengeance against the slayers of their brethren | |
| Author: | Raysokuk [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Black Templars |
Hi Archer, (VBB's) the cost of the Emperor and Oberon is in relation to how many Lb's they loose, also the reasons for the cheaper cost for these 2 are the fact that the boarding mod won't do a speed 15cm BB with loads of turrets very much good!, they have +1 Ld that won't do them much good with SM Ld, especially as it's quite possible that they will have the marshal (master of the fleet) on board one! The Retribution in contrast looses no potency of any of its weapons or bonus's and infact gains an increase to its Torp Salvo. Whoops! The Replusive was suposed to have the extra shield and a large base! That's why it cost more! (I'll sort that out now!) (VBB)There is one thing I have overlooked however, some VBB's are cruisers and 'should' therefore sqdrn with attendants and or normal SC's! The Styx only having Str4 torps seemed ok at first as it could sqdrn with Devastor SC's. Hmm, what if there was a limit of 0-1 Devastator SC or some such? (This doesn't really affect the Mars as it has Str6 which is useable on its own.) (VBB) Whoa! Just had an Idea, what if SM's had access to Venerable Strike Cruisers!!!! So the Styx, Mars, and 'possibly' a new Imperial BC from from BFSolar? (I'm not so sure of this idea, I'll wait to see what other people think). (as a fluff note, it would seem more possible for Sm's to have access to the 'newer' BC's if they were Venerable SC's such as the Overlord or 'Geddon! (the Hades and Acheron are out of the question! Too shooty or too rare!) (VBB) Some of the VBB's should NOT be allowed in the BT list. The VBB's that are avialable at the moment would/should only be available to an 'unnamed' SM chapter. As high number Launch bay ships should be available I don't want to get rid of the Styx (especially as it has speed 25cm!). (So Devastors maybe allowed in the list (as a reserves, so you'll need 3 other SC's first!) (I'll change this as well!) So ships without Launch Bays are: The Retribution, Apox, and Repulsive. (should they be dumped?) The Oberon, does seem pretty crap AC wise (only 2 TH's!) and then has loads of guns. I'm not sure if it's suited to BT's! (although I can see other chapters using it) What do other people think? Cheers, RayB |
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| Author: | Raysokuk [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Black Templars |
Horizon, (Special rules) There should be a bonus when the BT's are 'suffering', but +1 Ld in that manner seems a little strange. Suggestions: 1.The fleet may use a Subplot (Legacies of War/Blood Bond: If a capital ship is crippled or destroyed all the other 'capital ships' (excluding Forgeships) in the fleet gain +1 Ld in the next turn! (seems fitting!) (should the ships just cost more?) 2. BT capital ships (excluding Forgeships), only give the enemy +1 Boarding mod when crippled instead of +2. Actually, I like both!!! What do others think? Cheers, RayB |
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| Author: | Raysokuk [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Black Templars |
All, (Terminator Teleport Assault) What if ALL BB's got this benefit as standard? (roll 2D6 when conducting H&R teleport attacks and select which one you wish to count). I don't really agree with having them on every SC though. Should there be an option to upgrade each SC (except attendants) with Terminators? (There just isn't enough Tertminators in a Chapter to justify the avialablity of this option IMO! (note: CSM's are 'Legions' so there is enough for them!) Cheers, RayB |
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